Fickle...

[Heavy Metal Toon]

Ok this isn't a dig and i think it's a valid question, so don't committ a knee jerk reaction and please read what i have to say, then i'll **** off

You finished on 47 points and in 10th place, that's a fact. You all came to the conclusion that this is progress from last season and you achieved your goal of a top 10 finish, and Bruce shouldn't be sacked.

However, if you had lost against West Ham on sunday, a team who was already relegated, you'd have finished on 44 points and in 15th.

I know you will deny it, but some of the more sensible Sunderland fans will agree with me, if you had have lost this game, alot of Sunderland fans would have called for Steve Bruce to be sacked and claim you weren't making any progress at all, as it's the same position you were at last season. I know you'll all claim my argument is poor as it is based on "ifs", however, why did all your fans change their minds after 1 result?

I know it doesn't matter how poor the league was this season, you finished 10th and nothing will change that, but i can't help but remember everyone saying "enough is enough", and "i don't care anymore, Bruce out", then a win vs West Ham who were already relegated and had nothing to play for, and suddenly it's "we've made progress, it doesn't matter how slow, Bruce should stay".

So do you really wish Steve Bruce to stay?

Did his job as a manager count on a last day win?

Just a fair question I personally wouldn't want Steve Bruce to stay if i was a Sunderland fan. Two seasons in a row his squad shows lack of endurance and consistancy, and the fact that one result changed everyone's minds about his future is quite beyond me really.

1 game eariler everyone was calling for his head, then 1 result against the worst team in the division and suddenly everyone reckons he should stay and your club is actually making progress, just because it finished 3 points higher than last season?

I know you don't like the idea of a mag discussing your club, but it's been on my mind for some time. Please make joke after joke about finishing above us, i welcome it, but i was just imagining myself as a Sunderland fan, i'd still not want Steve Bruce in charge of my club after two inconsistant seasons.

 

[Commachio]

don't think the last match changed too many minds, those who wanted bruce out before the game, probably still do, as the win only papered over the cracks for them.

but the one's who want him to stay have their argument strenghtened slightly.

majority of minds were already made up, about bruce's performance over the season, not only the last match, well i hope so anyway.

 

[MrRAWhite]

Heavy Metal Toon

How on earth do you think you can you speak for all Sunderland fans?
If we are only talking about the Sunderland fans who post on this forum, a poll which was taken before the West ham game and while we were still below Newcastle in the league, showed that the majority were willing to give Bruce more time.

 

[Heavy Metal Toon]

Heavy Metal Toon

How on earth do you think you can you speak for all Sunderland fans?
If we are only talking about the Sunderland fans who post on this forum, a poll which was taken before the West ham game and while we were still below Newcastle in the league, showed that the majority were willing to give Bruce more time.

It's not just on this forum mate, i wouldn't base an arguement like this based on people on this forum only.

I've talked to hundreds of Sunderland fans in real life, and about 90% of them want Bruce out and about half of them want Martin Oneil to replace him.

 

[HorsleyHillCat]

Ok this isn't a dig and i think it's a valid question, so don't committ a knee jerk reaction and please read what i have to say, then i'll **** off

You finished on 47 points and in 10th place, that's a fact. You all came to the conclusion that this is progress from last season and you achieved your goal of a top 10 finish, and Bruce shouldn't be sacked.

However, if you had lost against West Ham on sunday, a team who was already relegated, you'd have finished on 44 points and in 15th.

I know you will deny it, but some of the more sensible Sunderland fans will agree with me, if you had have lost this game, alot of Sunderland fans would have called for Steve Bruce to be sacked and claim you weren't making any progress at all, as it's the same position you were at last season. I know you'll all claim my argument is poor as it is based on "ifs", however, why did all your fans change their minds after 1 result?

I know it doesn't matter how poor the league was this season, you finished 10th and nothing will change that, but i can't help but remember everyone saying "enough is enough", and "i don't care anymore, Bruce out", then a win vs West Ham who were already relegated and had nothing to play for, and suddenly it's "we've made progress, it doesn't matter how slow, Bruce should stay".

So do you really wish Steve Bruce to stay?

Did his job as a manager count on a last day win?

Just a fair question I personally wouldn't want Steve Bruce to stay if i was a Sunderland fan. Two seasons in a row his squad shows lack of endurance and consistancy, and the fact that one result changed everyone's minds about his future is quite beyond me really.

1 game eariler everyone was calling for his head, then 1 result against the worst team in the division and suddenly everyone reckons he should stay and your club is actually making progress, just because it finished 3 points higher than last season?

I know you don't like the idea of a mag discussing your club, but it's been on my mind for some time. Please make joke after joke about finishing above us, i welcome it, but i was just imagining myself as a Sunderland fan, i'd still not want Steve Bruce in charge of my club after two inconsistant seasons.[/QUO

I've said all along that SB is a mid table manager, that's as far as his teams go, but, it is better than a constant battle against relegation, I would prefer someone who we all know would get us into the top 5 or six & was able to take us further perhaps with the right backing

 

[MrRAWhite]

It's not just on this forum mate, i wouldn't base an arguement like this based on people on this forum only.

I've talked to hundreds of Sunderland fans in real life, and about 90% of them want Bruce out and about half of them want Martin Oneil to replace him.

With me living and working in Sunderland, I would say that the prevailing opinion that I see is that the jury is out on Bruce, but the majority are willing to give him more time. However, I would imagine that if he was to be replaced with a manager of the calibre of martin O'Neil, there would be a good deal of fans who would be happy with that.
I don't believe that warrents the tag of 'fickle'.

 

[Disco]

I'd still like to see him leave regardless of where we finished we showed so much potential early on in the season, barring the 5-1, and didn't deliver. Happy to see him stay for another year as long as there's improvement though.

I think most fans can take him or leave him, while the majority support him I think they'd waiver if they thought we could attract a better manager. He's disappointed in several instances during his tenure at the club. Winless spell this year, the derbies this year, winless spell last year, general affiliation to Newcastle, his nose and general physical appearence and the fact that he says 'we' instead of 'our' in front of national/international audiences incessantly.

However I'd be happy to be proven wrong. Does anyone actually love him as a manager, mag fans aside. Would anyone actually be gutted if he was to move on?

 

[Not_cricket]

I support whoever is manager and don't get involved whether the manager show go or stay. I leave that upto the owner and chairman

 

[mackem911]

Slightly less ridiculous than the lucky tripe spouted by Chappaz but only just.

Before a ball was kicked this season we would taken 10th place and your lot would have been happy with 17th.

Even our most ardent Bruce supporters,of which I am one,are dissapointed with our results in the last few months and have concerns about next season.When we beat the Villans away we had opened a gap from the chasing bunch and had realistic prospects of finishing 7th if not Yewopeee.Did the last ten minutes of the season improve our mood? Of course it ****ing did.Did it improve your lot's mood. Of course it ****ing did'nt.

Are you gracious being second best?Mostly No. Are we magnamanous looking down on you for the third year.Mostly No.

 

[bonnybobbypark]

I worry about Bruce and the next step. As said already here, the best he has ever been is a mid-table premiership manager, but I don't think he has had the opportunity (money) to be anything but that. I hope he doesn't blow this chance - mostly for us, not for him.

 

[Shameless]

Ok this isn't a dig and i think it's a valid question, so don't committ a knee jerk reaction and please read what i have to say, then i'll **** off

You finished on 47 points and in 10th place, that's a fact. You all came to the conclusion that this is progress from last season and you achieved your goal of a top 10 finish, and Bruce shouldn't be sacked.

However, if you had lost against West Ham on sunday, a team who was already relegated, you'd have finished on 44 points and in 15th.

I know you will deny it, but some of the more sensible Sunderland fans will agree with me, if you had have lost this game, alot of Sunderland fans would have called for Steve Bruce to be sacked and claim you weren't making any progress at all, as it's the same position you were at last season. I know you'll all claim my argument is poor as it is based on "ifs", however, why did all your fans change their minds after 1 result?

I know it doesn't matter how poor the league was this season, you finished 10th and nothing will change that, but i can't help but remember everyone saying "enough is enough", and "i don't care anymore, Bruce out", then a win vs West Ham who were already relegated and had nothing to play for, and suddenly it's "we've made progress, it doesn't matter how slow, Bruce should stay".

So do you really wish Steve Bruce to stay?

Did his job as a manager count on a last day win?

Just a fair question I personally wouldn't want Steve Bruce to stay if i was a Sunderland fan. Two seasons in a row his squad shows lack of endurance and consistancy, and the fact that one result changed everyone's minds about his future is quite beyond me really.

1 game eariler everyone was calling for his head, then 1 result against the worst team in the division and suddenly everyone reckons he should stay and your club is actually making progress, just because it finished 3 points higher than last season?

I know you don't like the idea of a mag discussing your club, but it's been on my mind for some time. Please make joke after joke about finishing above us, i welcome it, but i was just imagining myself as a Sunderland fan, i'd still not want Steve Bruce in charge of my club after two inconsistant seasons.

Congratulations on you 4,000th post earlier today*

Akshally I think you have a valid point. The fans here have bee highly fickle with regard to Bruce and finishing 10th and above Noocarsel has shut them up.

We're still pissed off about all of the injuries though but, particularly during training, as well as playing semi-crocked players then they get much more severe injuries. His impetuous sale of Jones, Collins and Bent - too many mistakes which were preventable.

He is hanging on IMHO and I agree, the events of the last day of the season helped his cause.

 

[Nads]

I think you've posted a more than reasonable question mate, but the answer is muddy.

I think the reason some of us, including me, look a bit 'fickle' about Bruce is uncertainty.

My stance is that i think he should be given this window and see how he uses it, but after the Fulham home game i wanted Bruce gone by the Sunday.

Facts are he HAS progressed us, and he's massively improved the standard of the playing staff, his downfall being he's overlooked the same positions we've been short in for years.

Facts are he is a likeable and affable fella, and i would love him to get it right, but his tactical inadequacies cause me to worry.

POint of my answer is that for every pro there's a minus, for every minus a pro, hence a lot of us changing our minds, when your split, a result may be what takes it to 60/40, vice versa for a win.

I don't see it as us being fickle, i see it as us being unsure.

Bruce has my full backing, as would any manager, as we go forward, but he has to get it right, NOW.

 

[DaveySAFC]

Ok this isn't a dig and i think it's a valid question, so don't committ a knee jerk reaction and please read what i have to say, then i'll **** off

You finished on 47 points and in 10th place, that's a fact. You all came to the conclusion that this is progress from last season and you achieved your goal of a top 10 finish, and Bruce shouldn't be sacked.

However, if you had lost against West Ham on sunday, a team who was already relegated, you'd have finished on 44 points and in 15th.

I know you will deny it, but some of the more sensible Sunderland fans will agree with me, if you had have lost this game, alot of Sunderland fans would have called for Steve Bruce to be sacked and claim you weren't making any progress at all, as it's the same position you were at last season. I know you'll all claim my argument is poor as it is based on "ifs", however, why did all your fans change their minds after 1 result?

I know it doesn't matter how poor the league was this season, you finished 10th and nothing will change that, but i can't help but remember everyone saying "enough is enough", and "i don't care anymore, Bruce out", then a win vs West Ham who were already relegated and had nothing to play for, and suddenly it's "we've made progress, it doesn't matter how slow, Bruce should stay".

So do you really wish Steve Bruce to stay?

Did his job as a manager count on a last day win?

Just a fair question I personally wouldn't want Steve Bruce to stay if i was a Sunderland fan. Two seasons in a row his squad shows lack of endurance and consistancy, and the fact that one result changed everyone's minds about his future is quite beyond me really.

1 game eariler everyone was calling for his head, then 1 result against the worst team in the division and suddenly everyone reckons he should stay and your club is actually making progress, just because it finished 3 points higher than last season?

I know you don't like the idea of a mag discussing your club, but it's been on my mind for some time. Please make joke after joke about finishing above us, i welcome it, but i was just imagining myself as a Sunderland fan, i'd still not want Steve Bruce in charge of my club after two inconsistant seasons.

Good read Heavy Metal Toon

The aim at the start of the season was to finish top 10 which we achieved. I'll give you we were very lucky to get there in the end.

After the first half of our season many people including myself believed we had made some steady progress, the new additions to the squad seemed to be working well and nearly everybody was behind Steve Bruce, of course there will always be some doubters around.

Moving on to our second half of the season I have no idea what happened, players were dropping out left, right and centre results in turn suffered and of course this brings out the hate mob who what the manager out etc...

The win against West Ham was welcomed not often we see our team win away, given it was against relegated West Ham who would have liked to finish there poor season with a win, I think we done well but in no turn do I think this saved his job.

I will back Steve Bruce we have to he is our manager, if we don't start well I fear we will have the Bruce out hate mob out in force again.

Good Luck for next season and lets hope we finish above you again.

 

[Sidthemackem]

Like most, I was happy half way through the season, but our run from the end of January was appalling. I think SB merits another season and some spending cash to boot, but we can't have another run like that. We're not going to crack the top 5 next season, obviously, but progress for me would be top 8, a decent cup run and 55-60 points. I don't think that's unreasonable when you look at what David Moyes is doing at Everton. We still get an average of 40,000 through the door and that'll go up if we are consistently playing well, not just winning. But we're so inconsistent it's maddening and that's really how I'll be judging SB.

 

[mackemwelder]

Decent Post, decent questions, FICKLE??? i'm baffled, please enlighten me.

Are you suggesting we are fickle? or that you are fickle?

 

[simonbh7]

I think that we did Bruce a huge favour by making a complete balls up of the last 20 minutes of the season. It would have been interesting to see what the fans opinions would have been if this had not happened.

However, the fact is that you did finish above us in 10th place and now nearly everyone seems prepared to back Bruce, at least in the short term.

I would have loved to listened in on the meeting between Short and Quinn when they discussed this matter, afterall, Short may well give SB another £20-25 million to spend this summer.

As for Sunderland fans being fickle, no more and no less than any other set of supporters, they just don't wash as often.

 

[MrRAWhite]

I think that we did Bruce a huge favour by making a complete balls up of the last 20 minutes of the season. It would have been interesting to see what the fans opinions would have been if this had not happened.

However, the fact is that you did finish above us in 10th place and now nearly everyone seems prepared to back Bruce, at least in the short term.

I would have loved to listened in on the meeting between Short and Quinn when they discussed this matter, afterall, Short may well give SB another £20-25 million to spend this summer.

As for Sunderland fans being fickle, no more and no less than any other set of supporters, they just don't wash as often.

And this coming from Mr Simon Body Honks 7!

 

[Keane prods the giant]

To heavy metal toon,

the argument doesn't wash. Whether it be the last game, the first game or the 23rd...why should we single out a single game? We could equally choose games where we'd nearly won and say "what if we won that game?". We'd be on 50 points and right up the table. the fact is we finished on 47 points and in 10th place, that is not attributable to the last game but the whole season. Howevewr, i think it's been a less than satisfactory season and have had my faith in Bruce severly tested. I think he deserves another season because he signed some good players. I still believe he can bring good players here.

 

[Lever Malone]

The important thing about this post is IF we had lost the game. The important fact is we didn't lose it. I mean you could argue IF we had won 11 games we had lost and drawn one we could've won the league but we didn't.

 

[cuteybuns]

In January, I was well behind Bruce. He'd brought in a much better class of player, and the team was flying. I wrote off last year's 14 game winless streak as just something that happens sometimes. But then the same thing happened again, and suddenly we weren't looking at a one-off. This was recurring incompetence. And so I changed my mind. I wanted him out 3 months ago, and, to be frank, I'm absolutely gutted that he hasn't gone this week.

I don't see any point in keeping him. If we are 10 points clear at the top of the Prem come Xmas, it won't mean a thing to anybody. We'll all be sitting round our Xmas dinners waiting for the inevitable to happen anyway. The damage is done.

I believed in Short, Quinn and Bruce. I stopped believing in Bruce when he gave me reason to. And this week, I've stopped believing in any of them.