EURO 2024

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sheepman said:
First half performance was miles better
Second half Dutch got here act together and stifled us but goal was fabulous great ball from Palmer and that could have been Defoe. Out of your feet shoot goal.
Think we might just win this
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I am usually wrong, but also think we are winning this, we havnt clicked yet, Sunday would be a good time
 
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WorkyTicketFTM said:
Watkins against tired legs definitely makes sense but I also see the point for starting him. This is the problem sometimes when you’ve got so much talent good players get left out. It’s not just England in this situation, all of the better nations have quality on the bench.

It’s all about utilising the squad and realistically most managers in his situation are going to start their best players. I don’t really like the bloke but you can’t knock him for not dropping his captain who’s just off the back of a season in which he’s scored about 50 goals in all competitions.
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A lot of England fans were shouting for Toney to start this match, now they're shouting for Watkins. Before the tournament most of them would have only picked 1 of those 2 for the squad, the other would be on a beach somewhere.

That's the advantage us fans have, we don't have to live or die by any ****e we say about footy.

If England fans had their way during this tournament, Saka would have ended up left back, Bellingham playing alongside Rice with Mainoo not getting a sniff and Gordon on the left. No idea if it would have worked or not, but I don't see anyone shouting for that kind of line up in the final now.

Southgate made effective changes to win the game again. I would expect the same team to start again Sunday. The same change to come with Shaw at half time and then see what's needed in the last 20 to get us over the line.
 
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Flash Gordon said:
A lot of England fans were shouting for Toney to start this match, now they're shouting for Watkins. Before the tournament most of them would have only picked 1 of those 2 for the squad, the other would be on a beach somewhere.

That's the advantage us fans have, we don't have to live or die by any ****e we say about footy.

If England fans had their way during this tournament, Saka would have ended up left back, Bellingham playing alongside Rice with Mainoo not getting a sniff and Gordon on the left. No idea if it would have worked or not, but I don't see anyone shouting for that kind of line up in the final now.

Southgate made effective changes to win the game again. I would expect the same team to start again Sunday. The same change to come with Shaw at half time and then see what's needed in the last 20 to get us over the line.
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My mate is a rugby coach. He says to me footy has it wrong talking about subs and starters. He says it is about the right phase of the game for players to be involved in. They think about players to create the control and take the heat out of the opposition. Then players to build dominance and players to finish the game.

Southgate appears to have that sort of outlook. A squad as deep talentwise as ours means quality players sat on the bench. But that is where they should be in reality, because they are better off coming on later when they can be more effective. I called the Watkins and Palmer subs on here last night, not long before Southgate made them, although I said Bellingham not Foden. It was because now was the time to turn Van Dyk and run behind as legs were tiring, same with Palmer pockets of space were appearing in that last 15 mins that werent before. Obviously it worked and looks a masterclass, and it is, but coaches are doing this all the time - looking for those moments when the game is ripe for change. Palmer, for me, cant start elite international games yet, because he can be vulnerable on the ball and we have seen that. But he is deadly when the game opens. Watkins wouldnt offer the early game presence Kane does, but against the right sort of defence will terrify them with his pace off the shoulder. Toney isnt a starter for me, doesnt have the allround game, but again in phases of the game will offer all sorts of trouble for defenders.

Southgate has been brave this tournament for me, by not reacting to the outside demands. Last night we got out rewards. Far better Watkins coming on than say Rashford, and Palmer not Grealish perhaps. These are the calls he made before a ball was kicked. I said last night I hope we win it for him. Southgate has been a credit to English football after years of mismanagement and scandal. We have our National side back thanks to him, better than at anytime since probably 66 and 70. He will leave after this, he looks a man who might have had enough of the crap that comes with it all, and a win would be well deserved in my opinion.
 
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FellTop said:
My mate is a rugby coach. He says to me footy has it wrong talking about subs and starters. He says it is about the right phase of the game for players to be involved in. They think about players to create the control and take the heat out of the opposition. Then players to build dominance and players to finish the game.

Southgate appears to have that sort of outlook. A squad as deep talentwise as ours means quality players sat on the bench. But that is where they should be in reality, because they are better off coming on later when they can be more effective. I called the Watkins and Palmer subs on here last night, not long before Southgate made them, although I said Bellingham not Foden. It was because now was the time to turn Van Dyk and run behind as legs were tiring, same with Palmer pockets of space were appearing in that last 15 mins that werent before. Obviously it worked and looks a masterclass, and it is, but coaches are doing this all the time - looking for those moments when the game is ripe for change. Palmer, for me, cant start elite international games yet, because he can be vulnerable on the ball and we have seen that. But he is deadly when the game opens. Watkins wouldnt offer the early game presence Kane does, but against the right sort of defence will terrify them with his pace off the shoulder. Toney isnt a starter for me, doesnt have the allround game, but again in phases of the game will offer all sorts of trouble for defenders.

Southgate has been brave this tournament for me, by not reacting to the outside demands. Last night we got out rewards. Far better Watkins coming on than say Rashford, and Palmer not Grealish perhaps. These are the calls he made before a ball was kicked. I said last night I hope we win it for him. Southgate has been a credit to English football after years of mismanagement and scandal. We have our National side back thanks to him, better than at anytime since probably 66 and 70. He will leave after this, he looks a man who might have had enough of the crap that comes with it all, and a win would be well deserved in my opinion.
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You're probably right but then again I do love a good moan.

Not a drop of alcohol touched my mouth last night. I'll make up for it on Sunday.
 
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FellTop said:
My mate is a rugby coach. He says to me footy has it wrong talking about subs and starters. He says it is about the right phase of the game for players to be involved in. They think about players to create the control and take the heat out of the opposition. Then players to build dominance and players to finish the game.

Southgate appears to have that sort of outlook. A squad as deep talentwise as ours means quality players sat on the bench. But that is where they should be in reality, because they are better off coming on later when they can be more effective. I called the Watkins and Palmer subs on here last night, not long before Southgate made them, although I said Bellingham not Foden. It was because now was the time to turn Van Dyk and run behind as legs were tiring, same with Palmer pockets of space were appearing in that last 15 mins that werent before. Obviously it worked and looks a masterclass, and it is, but coaches are doing this all the time - looking for those moments when the game is ripe for change. Palmer, for me, cant start elite international games yet, because he can be vulnerable on the ball and we have seen that. But he is deadly when the game opens. Watkins wouldnt offer the early game presence Kane does, but against the right sort of defence will terrify them with his pace off the shoulder. Toney isnt a starter for me, doesnt have the allround game, but again in phases of the game will offer all sorts of trouble for defenders.

Southgate has been brave this tournament for me, by not reacting to the outside demands. Last night we got out rewards. Far better Watkins coming on than say Rashford, and Palmer not Grealish perhaps. These are the calls he made before a ball was kicked. I said last night I hope we win it for him. Southgate has been a credit to English football after years of mismanagement and scandal. We have our National side back thanks to him, better than at anytime since probably 66 and 70. He will leave after this, he looks a man who might have had enough of the crap that comes with it all, and a win would be well deserved in my opinion.
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The term 'finishers', instead of replacements or substitutes, has been around in rugby for a few years now. It's supposed to better reflect the tactical change or injection of fresh energy that replacing a player brings. I think Fabien Galthie also said that it's a more motivating term than substitute. Some people don't like it though. A couple of seasons ago Harlequins started referring to them as 'game changers' apparently. Obviously the connotations are that replacements are made to change the course of the game, not to replace tired legs.
 
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The Norton Cat said:
The term 'finishers', instead of replacements or substitutes, has been around in rugby for a few years now. It's supposed to better reflect the tactical change or injection of fresh energy that replacing a player brings. I think Fabien Galthie also said that it's a more motivating term than substitute. Some people don't like it though. A couple of seasons ago Harlequins started referring to them as 'game changers' apparently. Obviously the connotations are that replacements are made to change the course of the game, not to replace tired legs.
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Eddie Jones really really used the philosophy very well in his early years with England.

It was pretty amazing to see, just such an innovative way of looking at the oldest thing around.
 
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Flash Gordon said:
A lot of England fans were shouting for Toney to start this match, now they're shouting for Watkins. Before the tournament most of them would have only picked 1 of those 2 for the squad, the other would be on a beach somewhere.

That's the advantage us fans have, we don't have to live or die by any ****e we say about footy.

If England fans had their way during this tournament, Saka would have ended up left back, Bellingham playing alongside Rice with Mainoo not getting a sniff and Gordon on the left. No idea if it would have worked or not, but I don't see anyone shouting for that kind of line up in the final now.

Southgate made effective changes to win the game again. I would expect the same team to start again Sunday. The same change to come with Shaw at half time and then see what's needed in the last 20 to get us over the line.
Click to expand...

I agree, but the media and press have been an absolute disgrace. Hypocritical wasn't the word last night after the game,media etc. Most wanted Southgate out the door 2 weeks ago, now it's GOAT this GOAT that. Football is fickle and I'm not precious about it, I just can't stand people getting paid to be Hypocrites. Neville, tried and bombed at management then has the nerve to sit there a slag the England manager off. Whatever happens on Sunday, the lads have got to where they're at with very little support.
 
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