Off Topic EU deabte. Which way are you voting ?

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How will you vote in the EU referendum ?


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I think a lot of people voting remain are voting for what they believe the EU should be rather than what it is. I like the idea of an organisation of European states, but not sure it can ever work due to self-interests which seem to work in favour of certain powerful members (how did Cameron's renegotiation work out!), and increasingly in favour of multinational big business - some of whom fail to pay tax in the areas they do most business. If big business say something is good, then they mean its good for them. This is not the same as being good for the rest of us. I am no revolutionary, I work in a small business, but I see governments increasingly toeing the large corporation line (rather than the small - and more dynamic - business).

The EU also seems to have an inbuilt direction independent of its "elected" representatives, with the actual voters being quite remote, thus handing far more power to bureaucrats than in national governments. It just doesn't seem to be very democratic either. For example I fail to see how 8 MEPs can adequately represent the whole of London (that's a million people each), when there are 73 MPs for the same area.
 
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I thought I'd drop this conversational timebomb in before the referendum. http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/wales/whats-new-in-wales.cfm/cardiff-event-in-support-of-migrants-this-Saturday

The bit below particularly stood out -

"...Migrants are being used as a political football. There are calls from all sides to limit immigration and renegotiate EU freedom of movement - but it is our government taking away our jobs, housing and public services. Our fight is against austerity, not against any other group of people wherever they come from...."
 
I thought this, but when I investigated, they really don't.

They have to pay to be a member of the European Free Trade arrangement, their net contribution is €107 per capita, against our €139m per capita contribution, yet they get no say on the legislation passed. They also had to agree to abide by the Schegen Area agreement, so allow free movement of people and actually have higher percentage net migration numbers than we do.

In addition, though they have in theory got the right to reject some EU laws, they've never actually tested their ability to do so and have accepted all EU laws (mainly because they get a 15% rebate that the EU can withdraw if they don't accept everything). They do have the ability to negotiate some trade deals and have some arrangements that differ to other EU states (mainly in the fishing industry), but they're effectively members of the EU in all but name.

They also have to allow EU migrants as part of the deal to keep them in the single market. Norway is used by Brexit bods a lot but it's a really good example of why we should remain.
 
They also have to allow EU migrants as part of the deal to keep them in the single market. Norway is used by Brexit bods a lot but it's a really good example of why we should remain.

Also the German Finance Minister has said that we wouldn't be able to copy the Norway model if we exit, as if we are voting out, we are voting out. So it's a ridiculous comparison to be honest.
 
Boris unleashed his knock-out punch spectacularly <laugh>

"But others were more focused on why Mr Johnson told the pro-Remain Scottish Tory that haggis exports could be hampered by EU trade rules."

,,,
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"They may take away our lives, but they'll never take our freedom!"
... <laugh>

He drew laughter from the 6,000-strong crowd during the TV debate at Wembley Arena as he told pro-Remain Scottish Tory leader Ruth Davidson: “Because the EU is in charge of our trade negotiations we cannot export haggis to America.”

But many viewers took to Twitter to joke about his comments, with some pointing out that the ban on importing Scottish haggis is largely imposed by US agriculture authorities.
 
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