Off Topic EU deabte. Which way are you voting ?

[Tiddler]

We must leave the EU if we are to;

1. Return to democratic governance as opposed to a centralised federal government.
2. Be able to retake control of our borders.
3. Set fair & sensible fisheries and agriculture policies.
4. Benefit from better trade prospects throughout the world. It's an irrefutable fact that the Eurozone's financial performance doesn't come close to that of the Commonwealth, USA & China.

As for the security argument put out by the stay campaign, the people of the Baltic states (for example) will not agree with their claims that the EU has kept Europe safe for X decades. Also, the UK is a key member of NATO - that's where our security lies, not with those bumbling, self serving federalists in Brussels.

Overall, the EU needs us much more than we need it. Vote OUT!

 

[afcftw]

They've not focused on the economic outlook as they know the short term effect will be painful. They've even admitted that our GDP will fall and thus we'll be in recession.

They lose the economic argument and they know it, which is they've honed in on the headline £350m figure, immigration and the NHS.

The broadcast they made with the NHS waiting rooms, was an absolute joke. The claim that we'd put the 'saved' £350m into the NHS is completely disingenuous, as for one the net cost is less than half that figure and secondly the economy will fall be a far greater amount than the saving, so there'll be no net gain at all.

Just a quick point, the net cost is less than half the figure only when taking out the funding we get back from the EU which they decide how to spend, if we pulled out the government could choose to spend that funding how they liked so the available figure would be larger than 50%.

I don't however believe it would all be spent on the NHS.

 

[afcftw]

I wasn't aware we'd given our sovereignty away and the EU MEP's are elected love.

As for the war comment just lol. Sums up the jingoistic flag waving nonsense that's driving people like you to ignore the economic risk and instead think of the days of the ****ing empire

MEPs may be elected but it's the Commision who put together the laws and direction of the EU and they aren't elected.

 

[Tobes]

and its just 13% GDP its also less than 50% total exports go look it up

The %age of GDP is irrelevant, it's nearly half of our total exports, thus it's by far our biggest export market. Simple as.

 

[pieguts]

What happened in 2008 started in the USA with them marketing billions of dollars of highly leveraged bonds that were supposedly 'secured' on mortgages. These mortgages were sold by high pressure sales people to people who, in some cases, didn't even have jobs! They were mortgages on properties that were next to worthless, or didn't even exist in the worst cases!...it was a train wreck waiting to happen!...

If the you get chance, see the film The Big Short. It pretty much explains where it all started.

When I worked in The City, there was a saying, 'America sneezes and the rest of the world gets a cold'. Still unfortunately true to an extent....

Buts that's the point I'm making, the economists who knew the banking crisis was coming, as early as 2006, are the ones that generally are discrediting the scare tactics being used by the remain campaign.
Being in the EU is not going to protect us from world events. The shrinking economy in China should be more of a worry.
And this is why I will always go back to my original question which is HOW do we know that our economy will crumble if we leave?
Today's latest offering by Osbourne, is that pensions will be affected. Hasn't that ship already sailed, when Brown dipped into the lucrative pension pot, companies almost overnight did away with final salary schemes and the goverment retirement age increased by a couple of years?
This all happened whilst being a member of the EU, so potentially none of us are immune to rising unemployment, mortgage rate rises, world events which trigger recession, aging populations putting our health service under even more strain than it currently is, paying more for goods and services than the rest of Europe, further increases in retirement ages, TTIP (which is being negotiated, somewhat in secret, without the UK being represented and should be a real worry to us all), further increases in our net contribution to the EU etc,etc.
Why do the remain campaign seem to suggest that we will be in the **** if we leave, when from where I'm sitting, it's not that clever now!

 

[Tobes]

MEPs may be elected but it's the Commision who put together the laws and direction of the EU and they aren't elected.

We nominate our own commissioner and he's nominated by the elected uk govt.

The laws go to the vote, and our elected representatives have their say.

 

[HRH Custard VC]

Another question

Since 1993 when the EU started (as we know it) how many wars/ conflicts have been on Europe

Answer its more than 10, so much for no wars/ conflicts in europe as the IN club say.

 

[Tobes]

Just a quick point, the net cost is less than half the figure only when taking out the funding we get back from the EU which they decide how to spend, if we pulled out the government could choose to spend that funding how they liked so the available figure would be larger than 50%.

I don't however believe it would all be spent on the NHS.

They don't decide how we spend it. The U.K. LEPS decide how the EU funding is spent in this country so that's another complete misnomer

 

[Tobes]

Another question

Since 1993 when the EU started (as we know it) how many wars/ conflicts have been on Europe

Answer its more than 10, so much for no wars/ conflicts in europe as the IN club say.

Oh ffs

And how many of those conflicts have been on EU soil?

 

[HRH Custard VC]

The %age of GDP is irrelevant, it's nearly half of our total exports, thus it's by far our biggest export market. Simple as.

You are talking out your arse, its still only 13%

 

[HRH Custard VC]

Oh ffs

And how many of those conflicts have been on EU soil?

But the IN club say about Europe not the EU, dont change the fact

 

[afcftw]

I'm off to play football, there has been some interesting debate this morning and I'm sure I'll get stuck back in when I have time

 

[Tobes]

You are talking out your arse, its still only 13%

You patently don't understand even the basics of this debate.

The EU accounts for almost half of our total exports, it's a simple fact.

Stick to talking about the war and go wave your pitchfork at Calais you ****ing idiot

 

[HRH Custard VC]

They don't decide how we spend it. The U.K. LEPS decide how the EU funding is spent in this country so that's another complete misnomer

£4B of the rebate, the EU tell us where we spend it.

Its all here https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

 

[HRH Custard VC]

You patently don't understand even the basics of this debate.

The EU accounts for almost half of our total exports, it's a simple fact.

Stick to talking about the war and go wave your pitchfork at Calais you ****ing idiot

I see you are losing the argument, its around 41% now, as this is a discussion, its not just about the economy is it, but much more, so debate that, if you can or is it to hard for your little brain to comprehend.

 

[NSIS]

We must leave the EU if we are to;

1. Return to democratic governance as opposed to a centralised federal government.
2. Be able to retake control of our borders.
3. Set fair & sensible fisheries and agriculture policies.
4. Benefit from better trade prospects throughout the world. It's an irrefutable fact that the Eurozone's financial performance doesn't come close to that of the Commonwealth, USA & China.

As for the security argument put out by the stay campaign, the people of the Baltic states (for example) will not agree with their claims that the EU has kept Europe safe for X decades. Also, the UK is a key member of NATO - that's where our security lies, not with those bumbling, self serving federalists in Brussels.

Overall, the EU needs us much more than we need it. Vote OUT!

Nonsense! There us no central federal Gvt, nor would I ever support one.

Another myth perpetrated by the little England brigade!...

 

[HRH Custard VC]

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[Tobes]

£4B of the rebate, the EU tell us where we spend it.

Its all here https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

How we distribute the EU funding in the UK is ultimately decided by the UK

The drawdown from Brussels has parameters on the economic areas in which it should be invested, largely SME's to generate economic growth, but how it reaches those areas is decided here by a bidding process.

 

[Tobes]

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We have the same rules for non EU migrants though, who made up the larger percentage of immigrants in 2015

But don't let the facts get in the way of a nice graphic lol

 

[Tobes]

Nonsense! There us no central federal Gvt, nor would I ever support one.

Another myth perpetrated by the little England brigade!...

Incredible isn't it.

A federal Europe, a combined army (NATO anyone?), me grandad fought in the war you know, immigrants filling our doctors waiting rooms and those pesky Eatern Europeans taking our jobs lads.......