England Captain?

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LancsYorksHampsLondonITFC said:
English strikers ahead of Holt?

Rooney, Welbeck, Sturridge, Bent, Defoe, Crouch, Wickham, Carroll, Agbonlahor, Young, Ranger....
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Wickham was the funniest part, my God...

Holt deserves a look at, he deserves a cap, and when he does it will cap a career where he has performed consistantly at every level

I just wish I could be there, when he runs out onto the wembley pitch, and the commentators say "Here comes a man who has scored a hattrick against Ipswich" to see all your faces

Face it, he tore you to pieces, he's torn every league he's ever played in to pieces, he's a talisman, he's a leader. Hell, you don't even have the "Ipswich bastile of truth" that he's "Fat" to fall back on anymore because he's built like Brock Lesnar.

You hate Grant Holt because he represents everything that you haven't had since you "Got Rich" and he is the ultimate definition of what we have done to turn this club around.
 
Beefy, let's just say he was 24 and had a shot at it, the commentators wouldn't be mentioning a derby! The fact you think he could play for England and yet the most significant thing he's done is score against us in the Championship speaks volumes!

I'm shocked that you want to open up the England can of worms again. Shall we have a look at the stats on that one again?!
 
Whole-lot-of-Holt said:
Name more than those 5 English strikers who are currently better than Holt, Welly? There are not any.

He has a very English CF style, thats what I mean Welly. Good in the air, works hard, good finisher, bullys Centre backs. An honest pro who will fight for his team and team mates
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I know exactly what you mean, and I'd half agree with you that he does most those things for you lot, but at International level the "good old fashioned English CF" doesn't work, hasn't worked for decades, Shearer was probably the last one who made a (pretty decent) fist of it, but he was way out of Holt's league, I'm honestly not knocking Holt here, (he's an honest, hard working pro, and a character to boot, and I genuinely like that in a player, but far too one dimensional), but if he was to play in the Euro's (which he won't) he would be so found out by defences and referees alike that I fear he would prove an embarrassment, which would be a shame for you lot, and most of all him...
 
LancsYorksHampsLondonITFC said:
Beefy, let's just say he was 24 and had a shot at it, the commentators wouldn't be mentioning a derby! The fact you think he could play for England and yet the most significant thing he's done is score against us in the Championship speaks volumes!

I'm shocked that you want to open up the England can of worms again. Shall we have a look at the stats on that one again?!
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You can go through the "Stats" all you like, but when you can explain to me exactly how that fact that Bobby Robson managed you a million years ago is going to score us goals at Euro 2012, I'm not sure you should bother.

Grant Holt shouldn't get a cap to win the world cup in 1966. He's should get a cap because he's an IN FORM, ENGLISH, PREMIER LEAGUE striker. I'm not sure how much plainer than that I can put it. If in the lead up to a major tournament you don't experiment with the formation of your core squad while trying fringe players then I'm not sure what the point in the friendlies leading up to the finals are.

Kevin Davies and Jay Bothroyd got a cap last year. Are you going to put your hand on your heart and say that those players are better than Grant Holt?

Euro 2012 is 4 months away. Our best striker is suspended for the two first games, none of the others are you mentioned are lighting up the domestics leagues currently.

I'm afraid your plan of getting Mick Mills to go up front at 2012 may not work, I'll Stick with Proven Premier League Goalscorer Grant Holt thanks.
 
I definitely dont think he would be an embarassment, people were saying that about him in the prem. OK,so he might not set the world alight but still maintain if a couple of our best strikers get injured he should be in. There are only 3 or 4 English strikers playing better than him now.
 
Beefforhire-NCFC said:
You can go through the "Stats" all you like, but when you can explain to me exactly how that fact that Bobby Robson managed you a million years ago is going to score us goals at Euro 2012, I'm not sure you should bother.

Grant Holt shouldn't get a cap to win the world cup in 1966. He's should get a cap because he's an IN FORM, ENGLISH, PREMIER LEAGUE striker. I'm not sure how much plainer than that I can put it. If in the lead up to a major tournament you don't experiment with the formation of your core squad while trying fringe players then I'm not sure what the point in the friendlies leading up to the finals are.

Kevin Davies and Jay Bothroyd got a cap last year. Are you going to put your hand on your heart and say that those players are better than Grant Holt?

Euro 2012 is 4 months away. Our best striker is suspended for the two first games, none of the others are you mentioned are lighting up the domestics leagues currently.

I'm afraid your plan of getting Mick Mills to go up front at 2012 may not work, I'll Stick with Proven Premier League Goalscorer Grant Holt thanks.
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If Kevin Davies and Jay Bothroyd getting caps is the only case that you can make for Holt getting capped for England, you may as well cancel that order for Kleenex!

<laugh>
 
Beefforhire-NCFC said:
Do I really have to spell out the fact that if they were given a chance why not give Grant Holt a chance?
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<doh>

Not good enough, Beefy, just because a couple of no mark ****s got (wrongly) capped for England is no reason why Holt (or you or I) should get capped!!


:emoticon-0159-musicIf Holt could play for England so can I:emoticon-0159-music

<laugh>
 
wellyblue said:
<doh>

Not good enough, Beefy, just because a couple of no mark ****s got (wrongly) capped for England is no reason why Holt (or you or I) should get capped!!


:emoticon-0159-musicIf Holt could play for England so can I:emoticon-0159-music

<laugh>
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Well my response that he's a proven goalscorer whos in form, a leader, a talisman, a hardworker,the captain of a top 10 premier league football team who would actually appreciate the opportunity to represent his country and has never let this club down in 3 years is obviously not a reasonable argument.

Guess Rooneys out then, is Mick Mills available or any of your old players? Maybe we can re-animate them and send a "Ipswich-Zombie XII" to the Euros...
 
Beefforhire-NCFC said:
Well my response that he's a proven goalscorer whos in form, a leader, a talisman, a hardworker,the captain of a top 10 premier league football team who would actually appreciate the opportunity to represent his country and has never let this club down in 3 years is obviously not a reasonable argument.

Guess Rooneys out then, is Mick Mills available or any of your old players? Maybe we can re-animate them and send a "Ipswich-Zombie XII" to the Euros...
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I'd grant you that he would appreciate the opportunity to represent his country, and I'm sure that he would do his very best for us (I say us as I seem to be one of the few, if not only Binner who will be watching the Euro's and cheering us on through every match)

But Holt simply isn't good enough, as I said in a previous post on this thread, far too one dimensional, with Holt it's "what you see is what you get", which may have worked well for you lot in the past and have a certain impact effect on occasion now, but at International level, forget it!

If Holt was to prove me wrong on this I would be happy to hold my hands up and be pleased for him...

But he won't!! <ok>
 
wellyblue said:
I'd grant you that he would appreciate the opportunity to represent his country, and I'm sure that he would do his very best for us (I say us as I seem to be one of the few, if not only Binner who will be watching the Euro's and cheering us on through every match)

But Holt simply isn't good enough, as I said in a previous post on this thread, far too one dimensional, with Holt it's "what you see is what you get", which may have worked well for you lot in the past and have a certain impact effect on occasion now, but at International level, forget it!

If Holt was to prove me wrong on this I would be happy to hold my hands up and be pleased for him...

But he won't!! <ok>
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Go and watch his goal against Everton this season, or his assist for Morison this season against West Brom and tell me he is one dimensional.

The fact you don't rate him is because he was an intricate part of a demolition that has left your club where you are now. Effectively teetering on the edge of oblivion. Holt has relished the hatred and derision of people over the years and he has made a career of proving people wrong so watch this space.
 
Beefforhire-NCFC said:
Go and watch his goal against Everton this season, or his assist for Morison this season against West Brom and tell me he is one dimensional.

The fact you don't rate him is because he was an intricate part of a demolition that has left your club where you are now. Effectively teetering on the edge of oblivion. Holt has relished the hatred and derision of people over the years and he has made a career of proving people wrong so watch this space.
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And therein lies your bitterness, Beefy, if you read my posts I haven't denied any of Holt's qualities, of which he has a few, he does a great job for you lot, and as I said, a hard working pro and a character, which I admire in any footballer, he's just not good enough for England! (in my opinion)

The fact that you go into the "he was an intricate part of a demolition that has left your club where you are now. Effectively teetering on the edge of oblivion." nonsense in a reasoned debate about a potential England striker says it all...


Forever in Our Shadow

<ok>
 
wellyblue said:
And therein lies your bitterness, Beefy, if you read my posts I haven't denied any of Holt's qualities, of which he has a few, he does a great job for you lot, and as I said, a hard working pro and a character, which I admire in any footballer, he's just not good enough for England! (in my opinion)

The fact that you go into the "he was an intricate part of a demolition that has left your club where you are now. Effectively teetering on the edge of oblivion." nonsense in a reasoned debate about a potential England striker says it all...


Forever in Our Shadow

<ok>
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Fair Enough I wouldn't BET on Chopra getting a call up though *(see what I did there)
 
Interesting thread and here's my two penneth!

Grant Holt is joint 67th in the European Golden Shoe running so far. That is just based on Premier League goals! If the 16 nations who have qualified take 5 strikers each to the tournament then in theory the best 80 strikers will be going to the Championships. (80 strikers) This statistic puts him in the reckoning.

If you dig further then at the moment the only English strikers to have scored more Premier League goals than Holt are Rooney and Danny Graham and no disrespect to Danny Graham but he does waste a lot more chances compared to Holt. Rooney is out for the first two games of the Tournament and there is nobody else who is in form right now!

Defoe isn't even starting, Bent is as wasteful as he is prolific in a Villa shirt, Carroll is badly out of form and will struggle to start now Suarez is back and Agbonlahor is a form player so could potentially hit a run of goals but he isnt showing it at the moment. Wickham has not scored enough goals to warrant a place (I don't even know why I am mentioning him - joke really but I'll indulge your fantasies blues fans!) and Wellbeck has not scored enough goals in a team that creates more chances than just about eveyone else.

That leaves Sturridge, who I really rate who is quick, tricky and a proven goal scorer given the chances and Crouch who can really do a job still in an England shirt and he does have a great record at International level (1 in 2) - another reason why all this talk of a typical English centre forward not cutting it at international level is just cheap lazy talk.

If you need a physical presense up front then it has to be from Crouch, Holt, Zamora and Carroll, unless I have missed anybody? To be fair to Zamora he has been there done that and earned a couple of caps because he has performed well over the past couple of seasons so that puts him ahead of Holt in my opinion.

If I had to take 5 strikers then it would be Rooney, Sturridge, Crouch, Zamora and one of either Holt or Bent - now if Harry gets the job he reckons his missus could finish better than Bent so who knows!
 
I would love to see Holt having a real go at some of the players if they are not trying when playing for England lol. You are right though there are only two more english strikers that have scored more than him in the prem!
 
There's no point trying to use reason when proposing Grant Holt.

We all know the England team will be the same old tired faces - with Chamberlain (as the new tired old face) - and we all know a month out from the tournament the media will go nuts with all sorts of wild claims as to England's prospects... and it will end the way it always does - with various scandals, Rooney slagging off the fans, and dodgy refereeing putitng us out.

I'd rather Grant Holt put his feet up, had a rest and prepared for the real test... Norwich's second season in the Premier League.
 
eeore said:
There's no point trying to use reason when proposing Grant Holt.

We all know the England team will be the same old tired faces - with Chamberlain (as the new tired old face) - and we all know a month out from the tournament the media will go nuts with all sorts of wild claims as to England's prospects... and it will end the way it always does - with various scandals, Rooney slagging off the fans, and dodgy refereeing putitng us out.

I'd rather Grant Holt put his feet up, had a rest and prepared for the real test... Norwich's second season in the Premier League.
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Just trying to follow your logic...would you prefer to have no Budgie player ever play for their country?
 
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