Off Topic Coronavirus

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Good call mate. I should respond in kind, I find some of this stuff very frustrating and sometimes post without due care and attention. Apologies.

I also said in one of my responses that all the measures taken should be explained in terms of risk/benefit, so we can all understand what is expected to be gained at what cost. But then, as people can’t understand a simple message like ‘don’t panic buy, there is plenty in the supply chain’, what’s the point?

Partly the frustration is due to exactly what you are saying - there is no debate, just ‘I’m right and everyone else is wrong’ from both sides, although the pro lockdown side just don’t acknowledge the counter arguments at all from what I can see. At least Heneghan and his pal Jefferson have put forward an alternative strategy and admit that differing interpretations of unclear statistics are at the root of the divisions. Gupta I’m afraid is the one who modelled 5000 deaths in spring and said we had reached herd immunity in September. I don’t know what drives her.
The main thing I took from Heneghan today was the amplification of the pcr test. I knew already that the test, as being used is purely qualitative, either positive or negative. He said though that it can be used to distinguish between dead and alive viral RNA (I know dead and alive are not the correct terms), and therefore those who are infectious or not.

These are crucial details.
 
The wonderful Pam Ayres...now 73 years old and penned her latest ode ~ to coronavirus...
I'm normally a social girl
I love to meet my mates
But lately with the virus here
We can't go out the gates
You see, we are the 'oldies' now
We need to stay inside
If they haven't seen us for a while
They'll think we've upped and died
They'll never know the things we did
Before we got this old
There wasn't any Facebook
So not everything was told
We may seem sweet old ladies
Who would never be uncouth
But we grew up in the 60s -
If you only knew the truth!
There was sex and drugs and rock 'n roll
The pill and miniskirts
We smoked, we drank, we partied
And were quite outrageous flirts
Then we settled down, got married
And turned into someone's mum,
Somebody's wife, then nana,
Who on earth did we become?
We didn't mind the change of pace
Because our lives were full
But to bury us before we're dead
Is like a red rag to a bull!
So here you find me stuck inside
For four weeks, maybe more
I finally found myself again
Then I had to close the door!
It didn’t really bother me
I'd while away the hour
I'd bake for all the family
But I've got no flaming flour!
Now Netflix is just wonderful
I like a gutsy thriller
I'm swooning over Idris
Or some random sexy killer
At least I've got a stash of booze
For when I'm being idle
There's wine and whiskey, even gin
If I'm feeling suicidal!
So let's all drink to lockdown
To recovery and health
And hope this awful virus
Doesn't decimate our wealth
We'll all get through the crisis
And be back to join our mates
Just hoping I'm not far too wide
To fit through the flaming gates
 
The wonderful Pam Ayres...now 73 years old and penned her latest ode ~ to coronavirus...
I'm normally a social girl
I love to meet my mates
But lately with the virus here
We can't go out the gates
You see, we are the 'oldies' now
We need to stay inside
If they haven't seen us for a while
They'll think we've upped and died
They'll never know the things we did
Before we got this old
There wasn't any Facebook
So not everything was told
We may seem sweet old ladies
Who would never be uncouth
But we grew up in the 60s -
If you only knew the truth!
There was sex and drugs and rock 'n roll
The pill and miniskirts
We smoked, we drank, we partied
And were quite outrageous flirts
Then we settled down, got married
And turned into someone's mum,
Somebody's wife, then nana,
Who on earth did we become?
We didn't mind the change of pace
Because our lives were full
But to bury us before we're dead
Is like a red rag to a bull!
So here you find me stuck inside
For four weeks, maybe more
I finally found myself again
Then I had to close the door!
It didn’t really bother me
I'd while away the hour
I'd bake for all the family
But I've got no flaming flour!
Now Netflix is just wonderful
I like a gutsy thriller
I'm swooning over Idris
Or some random sexy killer
At least I've got a stash of booze
For when I'm being idle
There's wine and whiskey, even gin
If I'm feeling suicidal!
So let's all drink to lockdown
To recovery and health
And hope this awful virus
Doesn't decimate our wealth
We'll all get through the crisis
And be back to join our mates
Just hoping I'm not far too wide
To fit through the flaming gates


Bravo... <applause>
 
The main thing I took from Heneghan today was the amplification of the pcr test. I knew already that the test, as being used is purely qualitative, either positive or negative. He said though that it can be used to distinguish between dead and alive viral RNA (I know dead and alive are not the correct terms), and therefore those who are infectious or not.

These are crucial details.
Just seen the BBC news report from Liverpool hospitals which is pretty scary. Liverpool seems to be in the worst position at the moment. The staff were begging for people to follow the rules. The positive test numbers might indeed be very misleading if they include non infectious people, and if these make up a large proportion of the total. But it is hard to deny that there is a rise in hospital admissions, and admissions to ICU and ultimately deaths as well, but the deaths aren’t actually what is driving the government response, it’s managing NHS capacity. The COVID patients admitted are genuinely sick, they need treating, along with all the other people with various debilitating and life threatening illnesses. They estimate that without action hospitals will be refusing to admit patients, no matter what they are ill with.

I suppose that the argument is that this projection is based on modelling including non infectious positive tests. Trouble is, we will never know who is right. If hospitals don’t reach capacity the pro lockdown people will claim the measures worked, and the anti lockdown fans will say the measures were never necessary. If hospitals do collapse the pro lockdown faction will say that we didn’t do enough early enough, and the anti lockdown people will say that lockdowns made no difference and we should have just soldiered on and protected the economy. Circular stuff.
 
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Just seen the BBC news report from Liverpool hospitals which is pretty scary. Liverpool seems to be in the worst position at the moment. The staff were begging for people to follow the rules. The positive test numbers might indeed be very misleading if they include non infectious people, and if these make up a large proportion of the total. But it is hard to deny that there is a rise in hospital admissions, and admissions to ICU and ultimately deaths as well, but the deaths aren’t actually what is driving the government response, it’s managing NHS capacity. The COVID patients admitted are genuinely sick, they need treating, along with all the other people with various debilitating and life threatening illnesses. They estimate that without action hospitals will be refusing to admit patients, no matter what they are ill with.

I suppose that the argument is that this projection is based on modelling including non infectious positive tests. Trouble is, we will never know who is right. If hospitals don’t reach capacity the pro lockdown people will claim the measures worked, and the anti lockdown fans will say the measures were never necessary. If hospitals do collapse the pro lockdown faction will say that we didn’t do enough early enough, and the anti lockdown people will say that lockdowns made no difference and we should have just soldiered on and protected the economy. Circular stuff.

Saw the same report.

Scary stuff.
 
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I know.

I apologise for my rude reply to you on Saturday, I also apologise to Stan for my impatience and rudeness.

I want to hear these people debate the subject. This is mainly what I’ve wanted for some time. I certainly don’t deny the existence of the virus, it’s the proportion of response I question.

Never do we hear Heneghan debate Whitty or Gupta debate Vallance. The closest we get is Hillary Jones vs Piers Corbyn and it’s farcical.

We need to have a mass (broadcast) debate, with no time limit and when someone makes a point that is central to the formation of policy, it’s hammered out until exhausted.

No apology needed mate.
We're all so frustrated with this ****ing thing!

I genuinely don't know who or what to believe, although I believe the virus is very real and that I really don't want to get it.
As Sooper says, I will carry on taking the precautions I've been taking since April.
Luckily I can continue to work.
Mrs Rangercol is a Pre school manager and that is a worry, as she's dealing with lots of people, all be it, socially distanced ( not the kids obviously).
 
Mass voluntary testing to be undertaken as a trial in Liverpool, which sounds encouraging, but what is the incentive for someone with no symptoms to volunteer?
I don’t really get this, and I think it’s where some of the stuff that Woody has posted from Heneghan comes into play. If you test positive but are asymptomatic what do you get but a possibly unnecessary spell of isolation? I’m assuming that asymptomatic people aren’t infectious as they aren’t coughing on other people and have a low ‘viral load’ or whatever anyway.

What are they going to do with the information? It would seem to me to make more sense to do frequent tests for key workers, rigorously retest those who tested positive with symptoms, and do mass antibody testing.

Hope yesterday wasn’t too unpleasant.
 
I don’t really get this, and I think it’s where some of the stuff that Woody has posted from Heneghan comes into play. If you test positive but are asymptomatic what do you get but a possibly unnecessary spell of isolation? I’m assuming that asymptomatic people aren’t infectious as they aren’t coughing on other people and have a low ‘viral load’ or whatever anyway.

What are they going to do with the information? It would seem to me to make more sense to do frequent tests for key workers, rigorously retest those who tested positive with symptoms, and do mass antibody testing.

Hope yesterday wasn’t too unpleasant.

I’d have thought you would still be infectious. Less so than someone spluttering everywhere but surely the exact sort of person who should be isolating who otherwise wouldn’t know to do so.

Still not much help if it’s going to stop you making an income and you can’t afford to go a couple of weeks without one.
 
I’d have thought you would still be infectious. Less so than someone spluttering everywhere but surely the exact sort of person who should be isolating who otherwise wouldn’t know to do so.

Still not much help if it’s going to stop you making an income and you can’t afford to go a couple of weeks without one.
Be nice if a scientist could tell us one way or another, and for other scientists to agree with the first scientist. Having, reluctantly, put a bit of effort in, I think I was wrong, asymptomatic (or sometimes pre symptomatic) people can and do infect others, and could account for 40% of all infections.


https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/198833/whole-town-study-reveals-more-than-40/

Intense and very localised testing would seem to make sense if you have a plan to use the data collected. The Italian approach which worked, in Veneto, was big on testing and tracing, perhaps not currently one of our strong points.
 
Hope yesterday wasn’t too unpleasant.

It wasn't too unpleasant at all really, and I had decided to go without any sedation so that I could get away as soon as possible. The procedure was much longer than anticipated though, because they found a load of polyps to remove - nine of the buggers. They told me it would probably take 20-25 minutes, but it was nearly an hour. It wasn't the colonoscopy that I was concerned about anyway, rather what they might find. Every time the doctor took out a polyp, he would say 'Adenoma, high confidence' and I was thinking 'Adenoma sounds like cancer', but it turns out that these are normally benign polyps. They've sent them all for testing though, and I get the results next Tuesday. Still a bit scary.

I have to say that the whole process, from getting the screening test to this stage, has been handled brilliantly by all concerned. First class.
 
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It wasn't too unpleasant at all really, and I decided to go without any sedation so that I could get away as soon as possible. The procedure was much longer than anticipated though, because they found a load of polyps to remove - nine of the buggers. They told me it would probably take 20-25 minutes, but it was nearly an hour. It wasn't the colonoscopy that I was concerned about anyway, rather what they might find. Every time the doctor took out a polyp, he would say 'Adenoma, high confidence' and I was thinking 'Adenoma sounds like cancer', but it turns out that these are normally benign polyps. They've sent them all for testing though, and I get the results next Tuesday. Still a bit scary.

I have to say that the whole process, from getting the screening test to this stage, has been handled brilliantly by all concerned. First class.
Fingers crossed mate, but sounds positive.
 
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Another interesting article on Long Covid, written by a GP in Glasgow...

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/long-covid-symptoms-impact-coronavirus-patients-lives-744958

His final paragraph sums it up nicely...

The best defence against long Covid is to not contract Covid in the first place and to do that we must all be in this together. We must wear masks, wash our hands and maintain social distancing. We must enforce the rules that we have and after the full lockdown we must return to simple and clear rules, so that we all know what to do. Let us work together to stop the spread of the virus.
 
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Reactions: kiwiqpr and sb_73
It wasn't too unpleasant at all really, and I decided to go without any sedation so that I could get away as soon as possible. The procedure was much longer than anticipated though, because they found a load of polyps to remove - nine of the buggers. They told me it would probably take 20-25 minutes, but it was nearly an hour. It wasn't the colonoscopy that I was concerned about anyway, rather what they might find. Every time the doctor took out a polyp, he would say 'Adenoma, high confidence' and I was thinking 'Adenoma sounds like cancer', but it turns out that these are normally benign polyps. They've sent them all for testing though, and I get the results next Tuesday. Still a bit scary.

I have to say that the whole process, from getting the screening test to this stage, has been handled brilliantly by all concerned. First class.

Hope everything is clear Stroller
 
I said at the beginning when the experts were bitching about that race meeting for causing all the Covid cases... <doh> that we should have shut our borders.
People need to remember that flights were coming in everyday from China/US/Europe and those arriving didn't all obey the quarantine rules. We must also not forget the amount of EU lorry drivers that were going from country to country with goods. This is how these things spread around.
You will only defeat this by all countries working together... which won't happen because for whatever we say some nutcase will be in the US saying Covid doesn't exist.

That nutcase currently resides in the White House!