Off Topic Coronavirus

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West WindsR said:
Fair post. In the interest of keeping the bar high I’d be keen to discuss the Sunday Times’ article in about three weeks when I’ve finished reading it.

It’s got something for everyone. China, Johnson, Brexit (apparently not the great stockpile saviour we’d been led to believe). And I’m only halfway in.
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Agree Watford you are a top fella but don't be sarcastic to posters who spend their time writing something even if you think it's crap otherwise we get back to zzzzzz and <doh>.
By the way, Turkish was spot on with regards to the care homes. When all this is done I want you to meet a friend of mine who has first-hand experience in this area. sit down and listen to what he has to say and I think you will be shocked mate.
 
ELLERS said:
I’m glad some didn’t debate this as there would be a few red faces. Once again a decent news source like the BBC is getting as bad as Sky.
This is why we should wait before condemning.

BBC correction on Burberry coronavirus plea
Earlier on Friday we reported that a boss of an NHS trust had contacted the BBC with concerns about the provision of gowns for staff during the coronavirus crisis.

He had asked the BBC for the phone numbers of Burberry and Barbour - two companies which have become involved in making gowns - because he was concerned about supply shortages.

We should clarify that the person concerned is not the boss of an NHS trust but is part of a network of organisations helping to source personal protective equipment for some NHS trusts.

The mistake was caused by a misunderstanding of the person's role in the fight against the pandemic.
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I am only going to comment on this ...and I am off to read the Sunday Times article first
Ellers this is NOT fake news this is a technical correction of fact.

The BBC first reported the guy as being the head of an NHS Trust (a figure head) and then the found out and recorrect the factthat the guy was part of the PPE procurement force that deals with a number of NHS Trusts (actually someone who could do something for a number of different Trusts).
I am MUCH MORE shocked that part of the procurment team is asking for the number than a request from a boss.

Please stop trying to score brownie points and actually use your brain and think about what you are writing please.
 
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qprbeth said:
I am only going to comment on this ...and I am off to read the Sunday Times article first
Ellers this is NOT fake news this is a technical correction of fact.

The BBC first reported the guy as being the head of an NHS Trust (a figure head) and then the found out and recorrect the factthat the guy was part of the PPE procurement force that deals with a number of NHS Trusts (actually someone who could do something for a number of different Trusts).
I am MUCH MORE shocked that part of the procurment team is asking for the number than a request from a boss.

Please stop trying to score brownie points and actually use your brain and think about what you are writing please.
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You are asking too much there Beth.
 
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sb_73 said:
Well kind of fake, it was someone who is responsible for procuring kit for the NHS. Still, poor journalism. Thank god we have something trustworthy and unbiased like the Mail to turn to. Not that they would want to distract from their competitions attack on the way Johnson handled the strategy. Sometimes Ellers I genuinely suspect that you post based on whatever Conservative Central Office instructs it’s minions to do.

Have you prepared your response to why we shouldn’t just copy what countries with a much lower death rate per million than us are doing? I know I probably gave too many potential comparators, I’ll make it simple for you, just one - New Zealand - English speaking island nation with a parliamentary democracy and love of liberty, easy to compare.



I just pointed out that the government lied about PPE, you blamed the NHS. Think you will be in a pretty small squad blaming that scapegoat, good luck with it.
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yes, I am. You were clever to choose the countries you did, however, you mad a couple of mistakes which I will correct for you.
Nice response about the fake news.
 
qprbeth said:
Col, we have made a lot of mistakes. I accept no one knew what this was going to be like, but I anger is more in making mistakes not admitting to them and then making them again
Right
1. Holding of for herd immunity rather than going for lockdown, when it was fairly obvious that the virus had escaped from China
2. Not going for total lockdown
3. Not closing our borders...which we have not done yet
4. Not talking to the EU about central procurment plans
5. Not speaking with the right experts about ventilators.
6. Not being aware of the requirements for ventilators FOR covid patients
7. Making a song and dance about the Dyson contract
8, Claiming we have enough PPE
9. Then saying we have not got enough
10. Claiming it is a problem in the distribution metwork
11. Telling people to reuse single use PPE
12. Claiming we have more tests than we have
13. Saying we will do 100,000 tests a day (yes we have a few more days left on that one...but we are not yet up to 20k)
14. Not testing frontline workers until April
15. Not telling us the truth about death rates
16. still not telling us how many are dying in care home
17. Not telling us how many are dying in community.
18. Having no exit plan
19. Lying about setting up a vaccine centre when it was already set up.
20. Taking so long to set up the economic relief, which is still not being fully implemented by the banks

That is 20...can I go and have tea now, I think I have a few more grievances but I am being called
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Ellers is going to be very busy.
 
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West WindsR said:
Why not just say what you know that we don’t? Would save a lot of time.
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My dad would always say. 'If you don't speak they don't know'. As I said Watford, I will wait for the inquest/inquiry because now is far too soon. You are judging someone before the case has started. It doesn't work like that. Wait for all the evidence. The BBC story should tell you that?
 
ELLERS said:
My dad would always say. 'If you don't speak they don't know'. As I said Watford, I will wait for the inquest/inquiry because now is far too soon. You are judging someone before the case has started. It doesn't work like that. Wait for all the evidence. The BBC story should tell you that?
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WTF? Was your dad a politician?
 
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For those who point out that most care homes are run for profit by private owners and that the government shouldn't be blamed for lack of PPE in them. Would you support the government taking this sector into public control, under the NHS umbrella (i.e. effectively nationalised)?
 
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ELLERS said:
yes, I am. You were clever to choose the countries you did, however, you mad a couple of mistakes which I will correct for you.
Nice response about the fake news.
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I probably did make some mistakes. Focus on the ones that are good comparators. It’s very poor dialectic to reject an argument because of an issue with 10% of it.
 
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sb_73 said:
Well kind of fake, it was someone who is responsible for procuring kit for the NHS. Still, poor journalism. Thank god we have something trustworthy and unbiased like the Mail to turn to. Not that they would want to distract from their competitions attack on the way Johnson handled the strategy. Sometimes Ellers I genuinely suspect that you post based on whatever Conservative Central Office instructs it’s minions to do.

Have you prepared your response to why we shouldn’t just copy what countries with a much lower death rate per million than us are doing? I know I probably gave too many potential comparators, I’ll make it simple for you, just one - New Zealand - English speaking island nation with a parliamentary democracy and love of liberty, easy to compare.



I just pointed out that the government lied about PPE, you blamed the NHS. Think you will be in a pretty small squad blaming that scapegoat, good luck with it.
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The government did not deliberately lie, their statement was based on facts given to them by the various regional NHS trusts and hospital management, this is how it works, I ask you a question you give me an answer, I then repeat your answer to somebody who asked me that same question, and that answer turns out to be incorrect, now you tell me who ****ing lied, me or you or both of us.
It’s that simple mate people go on facts they are given by others.
 
sb_73 said:
I probably did make some mistakes. Focus on the ones that are good comparators. It’s very poor dialectic to reject an argument because of an issue with 10% of it.
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You really should have used other countries to compare. Ellers would have given you a few to choose from. Silly boy
 
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Turkish" Premier" Hoops said:
The government did not deliberately lie, their statement was based on facts given to them by the various regional NHS trusts and hospital management, this is how it works, I ask you a question you give me an answer, I then repeat your answer to somebody who asked me that same question, and that answer turns out to be incorrect, now you tell me who ****ing lied, me or you or both of us.
It’s that simple mate people go on facts they are given by others.
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In that case the government could never be blamed for anything, because for every disaster they can blame poor information given to them, and you would support them in this. I blame the government, which has the accountability, you blame the NHS. Fine.

Perhaps they didn’t deliberately lie, or perceive what they did to be lying, they just said what they wanted to be true, because it made them popular. Just like they have on ventilators and tests. Net effect is the same though, the public has been misled.
 
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ELLERS said:
My dad would always say. 'If you don't speak they don't know'. As I said Watford, I will wait for the inquest/inquiry because now is far too soon. You are judging someone before the case has started. It doesn't work like that. Wait for all the evidence. The BBC story should tell you that?
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The BBC story that was very slightly wrong and just happens to have got right wing sources frothing about fake news the day the PM is in the firing line.

You’re conflating different issues. I’m referring specifically to this inside scoop you claim to have that proved the ST’s story is false. That’s a big claim to make and expect people to just take your word for it.
 
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