City transfer thread

[Chazz Rheinhold]

I don't know why you're arguing that point, RB is clearly a defensive position.

Just because it is defensive doesn't mean it can be used effectively in an attacking sense.

Also, all those players you listed are both great defensively AND offensively.

Elmo is only great offensively, and mediocre at best defensively.

Tell me a mistake he made defensively last season? Not having a go at you Quill but for too long its been this bullshit that Elmo cant defend. He can. Far superior in the air than Rosey at the back for one.
So if we played 4-4-2 I'd have Elmo RB with Snoddy RM. Thats better than Rosey RB and Snoddy RM. Elmo would/will be bombing on constantly passed him making the overlap with the ability to get back as well. Far far better crosser than Rosey, quicker and better recovery.

 

[tigerpete]

Hallelujah, perhaps we can now forget all of the nonsense about selling and start looking at the reality of Allam's protracted ownership and his continued de-branding of the club and why we are selling players the manager does not want to sell (or release).

Has anybody heard an interview that Bruce said he wanted to keep Ince and was apparently fuming when he went? Or was it just in the papers? Bruce is quite straight talking but not heard him come out and say anything about it myself (Although i might of missed it.............)

 

[Fez]

We aren't going to miss Ince because he never really played for us. It's like saying we miss Pusic, Belaid or Fathy. There's also no guarantee he'll do as well this season as he did last season for Derby.

He was our player, we loaned him out to the league we now find ourselves in, he scored 11 from 18, we had first dibs on letting him prove that form is class by allowing him to turn that into 28 from 46 (no cup games). Those 28 goals might, as you cynically point out, not be guaranteed, but personally, I believe we will always wonder what we missed.
We had that kind of proven potential and now we must look elsewhere to replace it; your 'we aren't going to miss him' ****e is just that.

 

[Fez]

I suppose we didn't miss Diame when he got injured last season then either, seen as he never really played for us anyway...

... Aye, like we never missed Snodgrass, did we? Folk seem to be reluctant to admit that the club have dropped a huge rick - at least Steve Bruce can see that much is true.

 

[Fez]

And that makes him a better RB how?

You know RB is a defensive position, right?

it really is funny

 

[Fez]

Has anybody heard an interview that Bruce said he wanted to keep Ince and was apparently fuming when he went? Or was it just in the papers? Bruce is quite straight talking but not heard him come out and say anything about it myself (Although i might of missed it.............)

It's quoted on this board time and time again, do a bit of searching.

 

[tigerpete]

It's quoted on this board time and time again, do a bit of searching.

People have referred to paper articles from what i can see, i dont really trust papers especially the sun and the mirror where he was quoted. Think they have primary school kids working for them.......

 

[Fez]

Tell me a mistake he made defensively last season? Not having a go at you Quill but for too long its been this bullshit that Elmo cant defend. He can. Far superior in the air than Rosey at the back for one.
So if we played 4-4-2 I'd have Elmo RB with Snoddy RM. Thats better than Rosey RB and Snoddy RM. Elmo would/will be bombing on constantly passed him making the overlap with the ability to get back as well. Far far better crosser than Rosey, quicker and better recovery.

He's a midfielder, not a defender, he uses his speed to try and compensate for poor positional play; sorry, as I know you will argue your point, but Rosenior is a far better RB - which is the whole point being discussed. You could certainly play the positions you describe, but Rosenior would give you a far stronger defence and I believe Elmo and Snodgrass would be too similar - buy that's not surprising as they are both midfielders.

 

[Fez]

People have referred to paper articles from what i can see, i dont really trust papers especially the sun and the mirror where he was quoted. Think they have primary school kids working for them.......

That's up to you, but Bruce's comments were in quotes and everyone I have read seem to think the comments are genuine. (they could be sued if they are not)

 

[PLT]

I agree with Chazz that Elmo's nowhere near as bas defensively as people make out. Bruce always picked him over Rosenior at RB when we were playing someone else on the right wing.

Although using Bruce's selections to support my argument isn't particularly strong, I accept.

 

[South West 'Ulltra]

Apologies if this has been mentioned, but I've seen this dotted around a few places recently. Would be a good signing if it came off!

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hull-city-consider-making-formal-9587135

 

[Mr Hatem]

I don't know why you're arguing that point, RB is clearly a defensive position.

Just because it is defensive doesn't mean it can be used effectively in an attacking sense.

Also, all those players you listed are both great defensively AND offensively.

Elmo is only great offensively, and mediocre at best defensively.

I find this post offensive, and you can't defend it.

 

[Fez]

I agree with Chazz that Elmo's nowhere near as bas defensively as people make out. Bruce always picked him over Rosenior at RB when we were playing someone else on the right wing.

Although using Bruce's selections to support my argument isn't particularly strong, I accept.

How bad does he have to be? The point is that Elmo is a (very) good Wing-Back, a midfielder whose defensive strengths are not of paramount importance, but certainly useful to have. Rosenior is a Full Back, a defender, whose defensive strengths are of paramount importance, which is why he should always have been first choice Right Back, because his skills in that position where superior to those of Elmo. We don't need to belittle one player to uphold the merits of another, or is that the way it is on here?
Are you certain that those times you speak of, when Bruce selected Elmo as a Right Back over Rosenior, were down to ability and not some other factor, such as a niggling injury (Rosenior was carrying a few at various times and we were desperate for putting a bench together). I can't be arsed to look back, but I certainly recall a general accord that when Rosenior played as a Right Back the team was all the better for it.

 

[Jeff Lynnes PBCW™]

How bad does he have to be? The point is that Elmo is a (very) good Wing-Back, a midfielder whose defensive strengths are not of paramount importance, but certainly useful to have. Rosenior is a Full Back, a defender, whose defensive strengths are of paramount importance, which is why he should always have been first choice Right Back, because his skills in that position where superior to those of Elmo. We don't need to belittle one player to uphold the merits of another, or is that the way it is on here?
Are you certain that those times you speak of, when Bruce selected Elmo as a Right Back over Rosenior, were down to ability and not some other factor, such as a niggling injury (Rosenior was carrying a few at various times and we were desperate for putting a bench together). I can't be arsed to look back, but I certainly recall a general accord that when Rosenior played as a Right Back the team was all the better for it.

It's all irrelevant. Rosie has left the building. Move on.

 

[Fez]

It's all irrelevant. Rosie has left the building. Move on.

It's not irrelevant as the fools who made those decisions remain; as do you.

 

[PLT]

I absolutely would have kept Rosenior and would have liked to see him play more, but I think Elmo can do a good job at full back and in fact, I think he's a bit too one-dimensional to be effective as an out and out winger, so in a back four I'd rather see him at RB, overlapping from deep.

 

[GLP]

I agree with Chazz that Elmo's nowhere near as bas defensively as people make out. Bruce always picked him over Rosenior at RB when we were playing someone else on the right wing.

Although using Bruce's selections to support my argument isn't particularly strong, I accept.

Elmo is ok as a RB particularly good in the air. But Rosie was better defensively and he could operate at LB and RB. A player with that versatility must be worth their weight in gold. A club would have to be really dumb to let a player with that versatility and experience leave wouldn't they?

 

[Jeff Lynnes PBCW™]

Elmo is ok as a RB particularly good in the air. But Rosie was better defensively and he could operate at LB and RB. A player with that versatility must be worth their weight in gold. A club would have to be really dumb to let a player with that versatility and experience leave wouldn't they?

Oh just ****ing bore off, you whiney ****.

 

[CANADATIGER]

Apologies if this has been mentioned, but I've seen this dotted around a few places recently. Would be a good signing if it came off!

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hull-city-consider-making-formal-9587135

Along

I pray to God this is true and we make a serious offer for Whittingham whom I've always rated. He was a top player for Cardiff in the Prem, always caused us trouble, and knows how to score goals from a distance which we were sadly lacking last year. He'd been a more than adequate replacement for Quinn and he and a fit Snodgrass, along with Thudd (if he recaptures his past form) would provide a real scoring threat from mid-field. Add in Brady and Elmo and an already strong backline our back 9 look set. Just need Bruce to make a couple of goalscorers up front (assuming N'Doye and Hernandez are leaving and Jela's knee remains questionable.

 

[Fez]

I absolutely would have kept Rosenior and would have liked to see him play more, but I think Elmo can do a good job at full back and in fact, I think he's a bit too one-dimensional to be effective as an out and out winger, so in a back four I'd rather see him at RB, overlapping from deep.

I understand what you are getting at, but I think this is where there is too little latitude in thinking when comparing the roles of Full Back and Wing Back.

I can watch a Right Back coming up centrally for set-pieces and I can see one driving through to overlap the wide midfield and create the treat of the extra man in the final third - but the key is what the other players do to capitalise on that temporary advantage, or it ceases being an advantage. We did very little and that was both frustrating for us and for the players concerned.

I can also watch a Wing Back running the line endlessly with the sole intent of getting high in the final third to cross the ball, but how often do I see them making creative incisive runs into the central zone; very rarely is the answer. The whole concept of a Wing Back has to be challenged more so that the inclusion of that position is less predictable and far more threatening. I think we would also see far more return from the abilities of some of those players playing that role - Elmo especially; he has pace, he will take on a man, he will challenge in the air and he can time a run - why turn him into the equivalent of a greyhound hare running up and down the line with monotonous predictability.

We have had the players and we have used various tactics, what has let us down is imagination and a preparedness to do something a little different. I have always laughed when the definition of 'doing something different' seems to be two wingers switching wings to confuse the opposition - all they actually seem to do is confuse themselves!