For people who really believe in the EU take a look at what Tony Benn thinks of it.
Brexitwatch ...
- Thread starter Smug in Boots
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Mostly the money we were giving europe that was supposedly going to getting spent on NHS etc.
I was also pinning my hopes on labour getting in .
Getting sovereignty back and under these Tory coonts has been even more of a nightmare than I could of imagined.
Fook sake, so many millions passed on to their mates for fook arl whilst we pay the price.
That freedom is there for the next competent government to exploit - that was the point, I think. Certainly in my mind.
Whether there'll ever be a competent government again is another matter.....
Could we get any worse than now ?
Never known as bad a government in my lifetime and never imagined to getting one as bad as this shower.
What is just as worrying is when you have a government as bad as we have, voting them out and bringing in a new government in should be filling us with so much hope, however it fills me with fear that they won't be any better, don't get me wrong I don't think for one second anyone could be any worse, I just think politics in this country is so corrupt I'm not sure it's going to get any better anytime soon
You would think if Brexit is so unpopular like lads on here try to make out the only thing that needs to be put in Labours manifesto is we are going back in the EU.
Strangely I don’t think they’ve hardly mentioned it.
This has been the worst Government of my lifetime, when l vote in a general election, and a different party get in, l just carry on as normal.
The problem with Brexit, is 48% cannot move on. We are heading towards 10 years since the referendum. There are MP's on all sides, plus judges, and a large slice of the civil service still interfering with us moving on. Stalemate.
Basically both sides are losers. I couldn't give a shiny sxxt who voted for either side, l just want to move on.
Nail on the head. They wanted it to fail so refuse to get on with it.
I keep seeing that argument but I've honestly no idea how it would work ...
... how have they stopped any progress in all these years?
I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't know how MPs and judges could actually do it.
Okay, l am completely neutral to Brexit, if l am wrong I am sure you will put me right.
Simplified, brexit as l recalled had said, taking back control of our boarders, the present Government came up with a plan to send illegal migrants to Rwanda . Judge rule that unsafe because of human rights. Judges will also stop this or any government from leaving the European court of human rights.
So as l see it a complete stalemate, everyone is a loser.
If the country were informed that there was no plan B in 2016, in my opinion we would not have left the EU.
We have no power over stopping arrivals coming to these shores
They can't do anything even if they wanted to.
I thought it was a rotten idea to leave and said things would become worse even though we were told things would be much better.
At worst we could've found things were about the same.
I know I'm supposed to accept the vote and never mention it again ...
... I doubt any Tories will simply accept the result of the next General Election and not comment again.
I can't mate, I've absolutely no idea wtf is going on tbh
As far as your point is concerned the Rwanda scheme isn't taking control of our borders because it's only dealing with people who've already breached our borders.
Besides it can only deal with a fraction of the immigrants so little more than a gimmick tbh. The government lawyers, including barrister Braverman, should've established the legality of the plan before we handed over multi-millions to Rwanda.
Not only that we didn't need to leave the EU to propose Rwanda and we didn't need to leave to take control of our borders ...
... in reality, by turning our back on the EU, we've probably made it more difficult imo.
We're now handing the French millions but they're no longer so obliged to assist in keeping immigrants there.
11 January 2024
"Burundi has closed its borders with Rwanda after accusing its neighbour of funding rebel attacks.
Last December Red Tabara, a Burundian rebel group, killed 20 people near the border with the Democratic Republic of Congo.
Rwandan President Paul Kagame denies the charge, but Burundi's government has branded him a "bad neighbour".
"We have stopped ties with him until he changes," said Burundi's Interior Minister Martin Niteretse."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-67940063.amp
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Do they have a choice, as quoted, if the party l vote for doesn't get in, l just except the result.
The overwhelming feeling l get reading the politic thread Dr Strangelove, poster are not enamelled with the alternative choices, which includes myself.
We have a by election coming up, l had stuff from Labour and Reform parties. Not very inspiring what l read.
I do a load of work with farmers who, pre-Brexit, used to heavily rely on migrants from various Eastern European countries (veg packing, fruit picking, flower cropping). Many of those who came over have stayed and made a life for themselves (house, job for themselves and their other half, kids at a local school) all contributing to the local economy in the same way as those who were born here do. The balance came for the season, worked bloody hard and sent cash back home to make the lives of those who stayed in the home country better.
Since Brexit the solution has been to offer some seasonal visas (about 10% of the previous number) and to look to persuade local people to take the jobs...The problem is that the solution is no solution...the farmers want people to pick the crop (in large part the only way they get an income for their efforts for the previous year) whop actually want the work...they don`t want people doing the job badly and only because the job centre says they have to do it - those types typically last about a week before going off sick (it`s pretty hard graft) and the farmer has to start to retrain the staff all over again...It simply doesn`t work for them...
There were issues in terms of the local schools (some kids needed extra help as they didn`t speak much English) and GP`s (increased population made getting an appointment more tricky) etc but those issues weren`t caused by the people who came over - they were caused by a wholesale failure to properly plan - those who came over were paying their way (just as those of us born here do), the fact that the schools and the NHS are underfunded cannot be thrown at their door.
The solution that these farmers are reaching for is increased mechanisation so there will be significantly fewer jobs, a lower tax-take and virtually no-one taken off the dole queue. That worked well...
My thoughts at the time of the Brexit vote were
1.that there should not have been a referendum at all - the economics were too complex for mere mortals to understand; but
2. if we were to have one then you should not have been allowed to vote in it if you were old enough to have voted for the first one whereby we went in - you`d had your say - time for the next generation to make its own mind up...I think the outcome would have been very different...
Since Brexit the solution has been to offer some seasonal visas (about 10% of the previous number) and to look to persuade local people to take the jobs...The problem is that the solution is no solution...the farmers want people to pick the crop (in large part the only way they get an income for their efforts for the previous year) whop actually want the work...they don`t want people doing the job badly and only because the job centre says they have to do it - those types typically last about a week before going off sick (it`s pretty hard graft) and the farmer has to start to retrain the staff all over again...It simply doesn`t work for them...
There were issues in terms of the local schools (some kids needed extra help as they didn`t speak much English) and GP`s (increased population made getting an appointment more tricky) etc but those issues weren`t caused by the people who came over - they were caused by a wholesale failure to properly plan - those who came over were paying their way (just as those of us born here do), the fact that the schools and the NHS are underfunded cannot be thrown at their door.
The solution that these farmers are reaching for is increased mechanisation so there will be significantly fewer jobs, a lower tax-take and virtually no-one taken off the dole queue. That worked well...
My thoughts at the time of the Brexit vote were
1.that there should not have been a referendum at all - the economics were too complex for mere mortals to understand; but
2. if we were to have one then you should not have been allowed to vote in it if you were old enough to have voted for the first one whereby we went in - you`d had your say - time for the next generation to make its own mind up...I think the outcome would have been very different...
In the wilds of Lincolnshire there aren't many locals at all so pickers are hard to find. You won't persuade anyone to up sticks and move there for low paid work. There's a large percentage of retired people who've moved from the south and bought cheap housing.
The work is also seasonal so that's yet another complication.
As you've said things aren't always as straightforward as they appear ...
... some people think that job vacancies and the unemployed should just be matched up and problem solved.
The picking work "back in the day" was often done by friends and family of the regular farm staff - unfortunately their kids don`t tend to hang around any longer and get lured by the bright lights of anywhere but home and the old ones are now too old...add a layer of people moving to the area for cheap (relatively) housing who aren`t going to help (they`re too busy moaning about the tractors blocking the road for the 4x4 they bought to get the kids to school!). It is genuinely a "lose lose" situation.
The situation is made even worse as many of the ones who had settled here now feel so unwelcome that they are looking to sell up and move to their home country.
Minimum wage jobs with rent double what it is in the desolate wastelands of NE England, yeah the unemployed of the NE will be checking train timetables as we speak
It looks like we are starting to see the benefits of slashing red tapes in certain industries which the EU are still strongly opposed too.
A big one is going to be AI, which is now making a big shift from the EU to the UK.
It goes without saying that this is a huge industry which will have great long term benefits for us.
A big one is going to be AI, which is now making a big shift from the EU to the UK.
It goes without saying that this is a huge industry which will have great long term benefits for us.