Off Topic Brexit

[Heed]

Maybe it's just me, but, I'd have thought that the Mayor of London would be more concerned with rampant knife crime and murders in the capital, than poncing around on a march with other losers.
As DPP has said, the Police are being crippled, yet, the unnecessary costs from this march (and Farage's) will have to come from already bare budgets.

 

[Freddd]

The will of the people? This was decided almost 3 years ago now and the will of the people voted to leave.

I expect that when things don't go their way some remainers think that by having a hissy fit then everyone should stop what they are doing and give in to such childish tantrums.

Not a childish tantrum, just a recognition that democracy is an on going process and not a one off event

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

The petition is currently at 4.4 million. Some might call that large and obvious, or the million (maybe only several hundred thousand) in London this afternoon.

17.5m signed the ballot paper to leave.

Who is signing the petition? How many are bots being used to warp it? How many times can each person sign it? Is it all just remainers, because then its irrelevant anyway?

Its a nice soundbyte for the remoaners but it is yet another example of them building houses on sand. Essentially we've learned nothing from this march. Just that 1m of the 16m who wanted to remain, still want to remain. That's great but what does it achieve.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

Not a childish tantrum, just a recognition that democracy is an on going process and not a one off event

It is and if there is a desire in the future, and its put to a vote, the majority decide we want to rejoin, then we will apply to rejoin the union hopefully. Until then we need to stop trying to rerun votes that have already gone. If that option is open, I'd like to go quite a way back and rerun several elections etc.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

Its worth reminding the remoaners of the will of the people now they are presenting the petition as a reason to revoke. Just a reminder of how our country felt about it. Numbers is one thing, but the geographical picture is the one that shows the will of our people. Mickey or someone presented it a different way earlier in the thread - it hits home. Can the remoaners explain why this feeling and these numbers should be ignored in favour of the minority? The more you look at it the more you realise how wrong it would be.

 

[Seabass]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

Its worth reminding the remoaners of the will of the people now they are presenting the petition as a reason to revoke. Just a reminder of how our country felt about it. Numbers is one thing, but the geographical picture is the one that shows the will of our people. Mickey or someone presented it a different way earlier in the thread - it hits home. Can the remoaners explain why this feeling and these numbers should be ignored in favour of the minority? The more you look at it the more you realise how wrong it would be.

1st off I'm not in favour of a second referendum. We just need to get on with it now.

The issue I have is that cretin Cameron put this to a vote with absolutely nothing being defined re the impacts of voting either way. I'm fully aware that complete clarity for the voter is impossible but no one had the 1st clue what they were actually voting for. I'm a remainer but could easily be swayed the other way if a compelling argument to the contrary could be presented to me. I'm yet to see it.

Just one example is the Irish boarder. Before any vote happened we should have had it explained what the process would be and what it would mean to the Irish people with at least a reasonable level of certainty. If it took 3 years to work it out than that's what should have happened. Instead it was all done on the cheap with the flip of a coin.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

1st off I'm not in favour of a second referendum. We just need to get on with it now.

The issue I have is that cretin Cameron put this to a vote with absolutely nothing being defined re the impacts of voting either way. I'm fully aware that complete clarity for the voter is impossible but no one had the 1st clue what they were actually voting for. I'm a remainer but could easily be swayed the other way if a compelling argument to the contrary could be presented to me. I'm yet to see it.

Just one example is the Irish boarder. Before any vote happened we should have had it explained what the process would be and what it would mean to the Irish people with at least a reasonable level of certainty. If it took 3 years to work it out than that's what should have happened. Instead it was all done on the cheap with the flip of a coin.

I think you've hit the nail on the head though, when heading into a vote like this or a general election, it is largely unknown. I've lost count how many times I've voted on a general election based on what a party's manifesto is. That public declaration of its intentions invariably bears no resemblance to reality. This is evidenced by the fact that the opposition for the next 5 years spends it telling the incumbent government they've delivered virtually **** all of their manifesto.

I think its disingenuous to suggest the public didn't have a clue what they were voting for though. We did. We may not have known the detail but we knew full well that we were voting on whether we wanted to be part of the EU. The majority didn't. I know this is difficult for some remainers to accept, but that is reality in my eyes. The devil of course is in the detail but the general premise that the majority of this country did not want to be part of the EU stands true. Believe me the fisherman knew exactly what they were voting for. There were countless reasons for voting to leave or stay. This notion that people just blindly trundled down to vote is a bit bewildering to me. Most people I know voted for very selfish reasons of what was important to them. Hence very few have changed their minds.

Now both leave and remain spent their campaigns lying to the public making false promises or declarations of impending doom. That to me is neither here nor there. That is the same as any general election. So once and for all I wish we could just put the notion that what Brexit was sold as and what it is now is a reason for another vote. It isn't because when those campaigns took place, it was impossible to say what Brexit would be - hence we had people campaigning. If we wanted a two stage process then we should have declared that at the outset. To liken it to my field of work, its like a tender process. If you have a one stage tender process you enter into it in good faith. You put your bid in, you win or lose. What pisses people off royally is if they run the process, the contractor is not the one they expected, so they say it now goes to a 2nd stage with people given freedom to alter their bid. Now if you could rely on the tenderer to be upstanding you won't mind, but the reality is they hawk the best price around and people drop their bids if they want the job. They usually end up with the contractor they want. Its completely unethical and a waste of peoples time/money, but it happens and it really hacks off people in my industry. This is what the remoaners feel like to me. They will stop at nothing to change the vote, despite that very clear both numerical and visual link to results.

It should probably not have gone to a vote in all reality. I'm not sure why the british people need to decide whether we are part of Europe - it should be a brutal decision based on what is best for the economy and helping Britain to prosper. Our MPs job is decide this for us and to make the right call based on what their constituents tell them they want, and what the experts tell them the repercussions of staying/leaving would be. However it did go to a vote and its high time we stopped embarrassing ourselves globally and got down to work on delivering the wish of the people finally.

 

[Seabass]

It should probably not have gone to a vote in all reality. I'm not sure why the british people need to decide whether we are part of Europe - it should be a brutal decision based on what is best for the economy and helping Britain to prosper. Our MPs job is decide this for us and to make the right call based on what their constituents tell them they want, and what the experts tell them the repercussions of staying/leaving would be.

Agree on this point. There is way too much messing around not trying to upset people.

The process of us leaving in itself is an example. The ruling party should have given the others a short window to put forward recommendations then offer 2 or 3 options for the house to vote on. Majority decision goes ahead. Done. I know they are probably unable to operate in this way due to historical process but it's a joke that we have extended A50 deadline.

 

[Freddd]

Agree on this point. There is way too much messing around not trying to upset people.

The process of us leaving in itself is an example. The ruling party should have given the others a short window to put forward recommendations then offer 2 or 3 options for the house to vote on. Majority decision goes ahead. Done. I know they are probably unable to operate in this way due to historical process but it's a joke that we have extended A50 deadline.

If they had operated this way, we would probably be more or less sorted. It's the fact that May refused to discuss what the deal should be beforehand and then has refused to consider alternatives once it was clear that her plan was the least popular suggestion ever put to the House of Commons which has caused this mess.

I will also take this opportunity to apologise to anyone I may have slagged off in the course of this thread - - Brexit brings out the worst in me and in many others.

 

[Magnet]

So when they say 1M people attended just make sure you have some salt handy

https://fullfact.org/europe/peoples-vote-march-count/

 

[JakartaToon]

So when they say 1M people attended just make sure you have some salt handy

https://fullfact.org/europe/peoples-vote-march-count/

Until they have 17.41million on the march or on the petition they can just ignore it. Just like they did with the Iraq war.

 

[Lord Jonjomort]

The only good thing that might come out of this is that politics is burned to the ground. Like Bercow citing some 'rule' from 1604 as grounds to stop MV3 - it's like "what in holy **** are you ****ing talking about? A 400 year old rule is appropriate in 2019?"

None of it is fit for purpose. These people play political games, they don't run the country. It's lobbying for votes to carry on the charade. I've said it for years and years; it's as simple as having a minister for transport, 2 months later they're the cabinet minister, 2 months down the line they're minister for education. What the actual ****? How can you "lead" like this, how is that individual an expert in all of those fields? It's chaos pretending to be order - politics, politicians and parliament are a burden on this country. If we didn't waste billions on archaic process and people, we could have a fit for purpose police, decent education and even afford the NHS. I mean, politicians were responsible for centralising the NHS IT systems. When Bill Gates said "I love the NHS, we (Microsoft) will help build the system for free", what happened? A few politicians realised they weren't getting backhanders, they refused and put it out to tender. Billions of wasted pounds later and the system is still ****ing ****. These are the people "in charge" - except they're not. We're in charge, you and me, we keep it going, we prop it all up. The sooner we all realise it the better.

Brexit was a vote lobbying exercise. The whole thing should be ruled unlawful. There is no way something as major as leaving the EU should be in the hands of the idiotic masses; joining wasn't our vote, every trade deal since hasn't been under vote, so why this? Millions of votes were effectively based on racism, ffs. "GERROUTOFMYCOUNTRYYOUFOREIGNBASTARD" received at least 5m votes. Politicians have now ****ed us up the arse so badly we're now permanently someone's bitch - whether we're the EU's bitch, or the rest of the World's bitch, we've managed to put ourselves in such a weak position we may enter problems for years. And politicians will still pick up their salary, their expenses, and the rest of us will suffer on trying to put this ****ing disaster right.

 

[Dorty Dogbreath]

I think it's fair to say that business is all that matters in this country, Brexit has shown this once and for all. Nothing else matters. The pound symbol £ rules. End of.

 

[Lord Jonjomort]

I think it's fair to say that business is all that matters in this country, Brexit has shown this once and for all. Nothing else matters. The pound symbol £ rules. End of.

Ironically, if we were out of the EU the very wealthy would be the main winners. Why else do you think Boris wants out?

 

[Albert's Chip Shop]

17.5m signed the ballot paper to leave.

Who is signing the petition? How many are bots being used to warp it? How many times can each person sign it? Is it all just remainers, because then its irrelevant anyway?

Its a nice soundbyte for the remoaners but it is yet another example of them building houses on sand. Essentially we've learned nothing from this march. Just that 1m of the 16m who wanted to remain, still want to remain. That's great but what does it achieve.

It's one vote per email address.

I haven't voted of course, but I have around 15 different email addresses so could easily vote 15 times.

Add to that the Russian Bots and it's becoming joke how some Remoaners are sucking onto the daily 'vote' count like it's their Mammy's Titty and they need to lap up the milk for comfort.

I laugh my head off when they call it the 'people's vote'.... like the first vote was carried out by Aliens or Robots or something.

 

[RobEllious]

It's one vote per email address.

I haven't voted of course, but I have around 15 different email addresses so could easily vote 15 times.

Add to that the Russian Bots and it's becoming joke how some Remoaners are sucking onto the daily 'vote' count like it's their Mammy's Titty and they need to lap up the milk for comfort.

I laugh my head off when they call it the 'people's vote'.... like the first vote was carried out by Aliens or Robots or something.

No you see because Leave won, it was a vote made by idiots.
Just like if we had another and Leave won again.

This will continue until Remain wins, only then have the pseudo intellectuals of the UK finally voted.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

The only good thing that might come out of this is that politics is burned to the ground. Like Bercow citing some 'rule' from 1604 as grounds to stop MV3 - it's like "what in holy **** are you ****ing talking about? A 400 year old rule is appropriate in 2019?"

None of it is fit for purpose. These people play political games, they don't run the country. It's lobbying for votes to carry on the charade. I've said it for years and years; it's as simple as having a minister for transport, 2 months later they're the cabinet minister, 2 months down the line they're minister for education. What the actual ****? How can you "lead" like this, how is that individual an expert in all of those fields? It's chaos pretending to be order - politics, politicians and parliament are a burden on this country. If we didn't waste billions on archaic process and people, we could have a fit for purpose police, decent education and even afford the NHS. I mean, politicians were responsible for centralising the NHS IT systems. When Bill Gates said "I love the NHS, we (Microsoft) will help build the system for free", what happened? A few politicians realised they weren't getting backhanders, they refused and put it out to tender. Billions of wasted pounds later and the system is still ****ing ****. These are the people "in charge" - except they're not. We're in charge, you and me, we keep it going, we prop it all up. The sooner we all realise it the better.

Brexit was a vote lobbying exercise. The whole thing should be ruled unlawful. There is no way something as major as leaving the EU should be in the hands of the idiotic masses; joining wasn't our vote, every trade deal since hasn't been under vote, so why this? Millions of votes were effectively based on racism, ffs. "GERROUTOFMYCOUNTRYYOUFOREIGNBASTARD" received at least 5m votes. Politicians have now ****ed us up the arse so badly we're now permanently someone's bitch - whether we're the EU's bitch, or the rest of the World's bitch, we've managed to put ourselves in such a weak position we may enter problems for years. And politicians will still pick up their salary, their expenses, and the rest of us will suffer on trying to put this ****ing disaster right.

Have you got any evidence to support this? I mean I hear it a lot from remoaners but when I ask them to prove it, they just seem to answer "come on we all know it". I have no doubt some racist people did vote to leave. I have no doubt some racist people voted to remain. I just can't see where millions of racists have voted to leave. I mean you are saying 5m of the 30m who voted were either xenophobic of racist? So 1/6 of the electorate where either xenophobic or racist? I assume you are just ranting because you are not happy the vote didn't go your way and the politicians have compounded that.

I agree with some of the other stuff and I think you'd struggle to find many people who think current politicians, the set up and process is anything other than outdated and not fit for purpose. I think that is something which unites many people. The gravy train rolls on though and won't be derailed. They've got second houses and summer houses to pay for don't you know.

 

[Red Hadron Collider]

No you see because Leave won, it was a vote made by idiots.
Just like if we had another and Leave won again.

This will continue until Remain wins, only then have the pseudo intellectuals of the UK finally voted.

A little bitter, what?

 

[Albert's Chip Shop]

There was this Scouse lad on LBC the other night speaking to Iain Dale and he was hilarious. He was basically saying folk over 60 shouldn't have been allowed to vote and kids as young as 16 should have been. The daft thing is.. he genuinely believed it when he said the kids never got the chance to vote the first time around.

Using that logic... I was 1 when the 1975 vote was done to take us into bed with Europe. This isn't fair... we didn't have all the facts back then so I think we should rerun the 1975 vote so that I can have my say too as we were clearly misled into thinking the EU would benefit us.

Also.. **** it... with general elections as soon as one manifesto lie is exposed we should have another election... even if it's 6 months later.

 

[jimileysbaldhead]

There was this Scouse lad on LBC the other night speaking to Iain Dale and he was hilarious. He was basically saying folk over 60 shouldn't have been allowed to vote and kids as young as 16 should have been. The daft thing is.. he genuinely believed it when he said the kids never got the chance to vote the first time around.

Using that logic... I was 1 when the 1975 vote was done to take us into bed with Europe. This isn't fair... we didn't have all the facts back then so I think we should rerun the 1975 vote so that I can have my say too as we were clearly misled into thinking the EU would benefit us.

Also.. **** it... with general elections as soon as one manifesto lie is exposed we should have another election... even if it's 6 months later.

I voted for the Scouse lad you're talking about to go and f*ck himself. I then went down the pub and spent some of my old age pension on a few beers.