Off Topic Brexit

  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!
J J McClure said:
There was this Scouse lad on LBC the other night speaking to Iain Dale and he was hilarious. He was basically saying folk over 60 shouldn't have been allowed to vote and kids as young as 16 should have been. The daft thing is.. he genuinely believed it when he said the kids never got the chance to vote the first time around.

Using that logic... I was 1 when the 1975 vote was done to take us into bed with Europe. This isn't fair... we didn't have all the facts back then so I think we should rerun the 1975 vote so that I can have my say too as we were clearly misled into thinking the EU would benefit us.

Also.. **** it... with general elections as soon as one manifesto lie is exposed we should have another election... even if it's 6 months later.
Click to expand...

This is a hard one to be fair.
Who would you choose to make a decision, a 60+ year old like Jim with a wealth of experience, or some 16 year old bindipper, whose sole experience in life, is limited to using his left hand for ****ing and stealing hubcaps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Albert's Chip Shop
Heedor said:
This is a hard one to be fair.
Who would you choose to make a decision, a 60+ year old like Jim with a wealth of experience, or some 16 year old bindipper, whose sole experience in life, is limited to using his left hand for ****ing and stealing hubcaps.
Click to expand...
Obviously the 16 yea...


Oh, i see what you mean, Jim, definitely Jim...

:bandit:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Heed
Lord Jonjomort said:
The only good thing that might come out of this is that politics is burned to the ground. Like Bercow citing some 'rule' from 1604 as grounds to stop MV3 - it's like "what in holy **** are you ****ing talking about? A 400 year old rule is appropriate in 2019?"

None of it is fit for purpose. These people play political games, they don't run the country. It's lobbying for votes to carry on the charade. I've said it for years and years; it's as simple as having a minister for transport, 2 months later they're the cabinet minister, 2 months down the line they're minister for education. What the actual ****? How can you "lead" like this, how is that individual an expert in all of those fields? It's chaos pretending to be order - politics, politicians and parliament are a burden on this country. If we didn't waste billions on archaic process and people, we could have a fit for purpose police, decent education and even afford the NHS. I mean, politicians were responsible for centralising the NHS IT systems. When Bill Gates said "I love the NHS, we (Microsoft) will help build the system for free", what happened? A few politicians realised they weren't getting backhanders, they refused and put it out to tender. Billions of wasted pounds later and the system is still ****ing ****. These are the people "in charge" - except they're not. We're in charge, you and me, we keep it going, we prop it all up. The sooner we all realise it the better.

Brexit was a vote lobbying exercise. The whole thing should be ruled unlawful. There is no way something as major as leaving the EU should be in the hands of the idiotic masses; joining wasn't our vote, every trade deal since hasn't been under vote, so why this? Millions of votes were effectively based on racism, ffs. "GERROUTOFMYCOUNTRYYOUFOREIGNBASTARD" received at least 5m votes. Politicians have now ****ed us up the arse so badly we're now permanently someone's bitch - whether we're the EU's bitch, or the rest of the World's bitch, we've managed to put ourselves in such a weak position we may enter problems for years. And politicians will still pick up their salary, their expenses, and the rest of us will suffer on trying to put this ****ing disaster right.
Click to expand...
Simply this !
 
Warm Pouch said:
Have you got any evidence to support this? I mean I hear it a lot from remoaners but when I ask them to prove it, they just seem to answer "come on we all know it". I have no doubt some racist people did vote to leave. I have no doubt some racist people voted to remain. I just can't see where millions of racists have voted to leave. I mean you are saying 5m of the 30m who voted were either xenophobic of racist? So 1/6 of the electorate where either xenophobic or racist? I assume you are just ranting because you are not happy the vote didn't go your way and the politicians have compounded that.

I agree with some of the other stuff and I think you'd struggle to find many people who think current politicians, the set up and process is anything other than outdated and not fit for purpose. I think that is something which unites many people. The gravy train rolls on though and won't be derailed. They've got second houses and summer houses to pay for don't you know.
Click to expand...

Gross over-exaggeration to make a point, apologies. However, it's not about the vote not going MY way - it didn't go anyone's way. I voted to remain because voting to leave was never going to be anything other than a clusterfuck. I hated politics, the system and politicians WAY before Brexit and knew for an absolute fact that putting those half-baked ****ing morons in charge of an exit strategy would be an unmitigated disaster.

Forgetting everything else, only around 63% of those that could vote, did vote. So the "majority", the "will of the people" actually pertains to around a third of the voting population, and around 1/5th of the overall population. How in the name of **** is that right? It should have been a mandatory vote with a minimum turnout requirement for the result to even be considered. It's just another obvious flaw in a terminally, endemically flawed system.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LeazesParkProwler
Somebodys pinched my sombrero said:
Any lazy bastards who didn't vote who are now moaning that there should be another vote have no voice imo. The majority voted out, there should be no turning back or democracy is no more.
Click to expand...

Agree with The first bit. If you can't be added to vote, you can't complain.

With respect to second, I don't recall democracy being defined as a system in which you can't change your mind.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Geordie lass in the Fen and LeazesParkProwler
Freddd said:
Agree with The first bit. If you can't be added to vote, you can't complain.

With respect to second, I don't recall democracy being defined as a system in which you can't change your mind.
Click to expand...
But the Remainers have nothing to show that the majority has changed its mind. A petition and a march where the numbers don’t challenge the numbers voting to leave at the Referendum are not evidence to say that the majority has changed its mind. Where there is no evidence to show the majority has changed its mind then there is no need for a further Referendum. Just because a few people (nobody has quantified the number) have changed their minds doesn’t mean we kick a democratically reached vote into touch.
 
J J McClure said:
It's one vote per email address.

I haven't voted of course, but I have around 15 different email addresses so could easily vote 15 times.

Add to that the Russian Bots and it's becoming joke how some Remoaners are sucking onto the daily 'vote' count like it's their Mammy's Titty and they need to lap up the milk for comfort.

I laugh my head off when they call it the 'people's vote'.... like the first vote was carried out by Aliens or Robots or something.
Click to expand...
Why would anybody have 15email addresses - unless they have 14 sock accounts on here. Where’s Inspector Dorty when you need him?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dorty Dogbreath
Freddd said:
Agree with The first bit. If you can't be added to vote, you can't complain.

With respect to second, I don't recall democracy being defined as a system in which you can't change your mind.
Click to expand...

So, if there's another referendum and remain wins, we will then have another before we can back out of brexit?

We don't have everyone vote conservative then have a re-vote before they actually get in.

I don't think there should never be a referendum on rejoining the EU in the future, we just have to actually leave the thing before that would occur. Whether this weakens our ability to rejoin in that instance is irrelevant, choice was made. That's democracy, no?
 
Freddd said:
Agree with The first bit. If you can't be added to vote, you can't complain.

With respect to second, I don't recall democracy being defined as a system in which you can't change your mind.
Click to expand...
Our first decision hasn't happened yet. Don't know a massive amount about politics, but we could be missing out on a big opportunity. We are one of the strongest countries in the EU. If we go, I think Germany and France would push to follow us.
 
Somebodys pinched my sombrero said:
Any lazy bastards who didn't vote who are now moaning that there should be another vote have no voice imo. The majority voted out, there should be no turning back or democracy is no more.
Click to expand...

As much as I disagree with the outcome of this vote, I agree. However, I think politicians and voters need to be more realistic.

We're stuck in between a rock and a hard place where there is a perception that leaving the EU means ending the freedom of movement. I don't dispute that. However, I think we finally accept that the four freedoms of the single market are indivisible and the EU (rightly so) won't let a country like the UK undermine this. If they did, the concept falls down.

That puts us in a sticky position. If you couple ending freedom of movement with leaving the single market, then the only pre-existing option is an FTA a la Canada. However, as much as this lowered trade barriers (both regulatory and less importantly, non-regulatory e.g tariffs) for Canada, this raises trade barriers for us. They step closer to the single market, we step further away.

The problem is that this will undeniably have an economic impact. I'm not talking doomsday recession here but when supply chains have been so intertwined and regulation is so harmonised, this will be a negative impact.

The main issue that comes is trying to intertwine the politics and the economics. Politically, if you want to end freedom of movement you will have negative economic impacts. However, if you want to limit the negative economic impacts, you can't completely end freedom of movement and that's why the Efta option comes into play.

Personally, I've always felt the UK's natural position is Efta. We've always been on the periphery of the political integration, not quite fully involved.

Efta gives us an opportunity to slowly transition away from the EU without torpedoing our economy. Let's stay there for a few years and then see what appetite there is for a further movement away. Yes you don't end freedom of movement but it's a start...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Albert's Chip Shop
I am Groot returns said:
But the Remainers have nothing to show that the majority has changed its mind. A petition and a march where the numbers don’t challenge the numbers voting to leave at the Referendum are not evidence to say that the majority has changed its mind. Where there is no evidence to show the majority has changed its mind then there is no need for a further Referendum. Just because a few people (nobody has quantified the number) have changed their minds doesn’t mean we kick a democratically reached vote into touch.
Click to expand...

This.
It's a myth that everyone has changed their mind.
I don't know a single person who has.
In fact I know people who are remoaners but are raging about the way the EU has screwed us over and made derogatory remarks about us and now have a '**** them' attitude.
I'd have no problem with another referendum as it will be an even bigger majority this time and it will set the remoaners who are still beelin' about losing into absolute beel overdrive.
 
Freddd said:
Agree with The first bit. If you can't be added to vote, you can't complain.

With respect to second, I don't recall democracy being defined as a system in which you can't change your mind.
Click to expand...

Okay... in that case, my dad, who voted to join Europe in the 70's.... and then voted out at the 2016 referendum has changed his. As millions did. so job done. :angel:
 
J J McClure said:
This.
It's a myth that everyone has changed their mind.
I don't know a single person who has.
In fact I know people who are remoaners but are raging about the way the EU has screwed us over and made derogatory remarks about us and now have a '**** them' attitude.
I'd have no problem with another referendum as it will be an even bigger majority this time and it will set the remoaners who are still beelin' about losing into absolute beel overdrive.
Click to expand...

I'd agree with parts of this for sure. Personally, I think if there was another referendum there'd be a slight swing to remain. However, 51-49 to remain isn't conclusive and I don't think we'd solve any problems.

On the other hand, I have a genuine fear of a no deal exit which would cause further economic, political and more importantly, social disintegration. It would cause way more problems than we have now.

Hopefully politicians will see some sense and make a compromise, where we leave the EU, respecting the referendum but take it slowly. Personally, I don't think there's any point with leaving if it's purely for the sake of it.

Will see what happens tonight...
 
Personally I think the approach taken by MP's now, in spite of all the political posturing and bullshit, is probably the right one. So late in the day, however, the whole country is an embarrassment. However, this system they are going to use today is how it should have been throughout the process and it should have involved the voting population of the UK. Simple premise, start with (say) 7 viable options, have a vote, least popular option is scrapped, vote on the 6 remaining, and so on until there's a much heavier majority for one option that is acted on properly. This is pretty much how democracy should work, with the fact we have the internet and automated IT systems and such; it should be quick, done from a laptop or mobile device and have 'mandatory' turnout, so anyone not voting is fined.

Just saying "in or out" with no facts or information (because our "leaders" didn't even know that the **** it meant) means too many different things to many different people. It varies greatly from "I voted leave because I'm sick of all the foreigners" to "I voted to leave because we need to have a greater say in global trade agreements without worrying about Romania's vote".

The trouble is they got to this point through typical stupidity and ineptitude, 2 days before we were due to leave having had 2 years to sort it out. I did vote to stay, because I knew it would be an economic and political clusterfuck because of our current "leaders". However, i'm now in the "just get the ****ing thing over with" camp; whether we stay or leave, life will go on and businesses across this country will do whatever it takes to keep the country afloat, in spite of politics.

Personally I can see benefits on both sides - but again I point to the fact we have an abhorrent political system founded on avoidance and dereliction of duty. Do you want these people leading us into a new way of being? These fcking morons couldn't negotiate with the EU when we were embedded in it, what are they going to achieve when we're not in it?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back