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Off Topic Brexit
- Thread starter Albert's Chip Shop
- Start date
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Okay:
Why is asking the public a question whose meaning is unknown an exercise in democracy but asking it again when we know what it means undemocratic ?
Just because people might answer differently when they know what they're being asked ?
Why is asking the public a question whose meaning is unknown an exercise in democracy but asking it again when we know what it means undemocratic ?
Just because people might answer differently when they know what they're being asked ?
The question’s meaning was known. Do we leave the EU or do we not? Not difficult to understand.
Out of curiosity what would the question or questions be on any new referendum ballot paper?
Also what is the issue with “remainers” accepting a democratic vote to leave? No one complained about the ambiguity of the question before the last referendum or that people didn’t understand or claimed we should come back for another vote once we knew the terms of leaving. Why?
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If it wasn't difficult to understand, it's surprising that there are still so many people pushing so many different plans, all claiming that the theirs is Brexit.
As for the question, it would be a :
1. As between leaving on (whatever deal is on the table) or remaining, would you prefer to leave or remain.
2. As between leaving with no deal or remaining, would you prefer to leave or remain.
You can vote leave on both questions, on one or on either.
And I think you will find that were lots of people who thought it was a stupid idea to have a complex issue like this decided by a crude binary option
I agree it was stupid to decide an issue like this by a referendum. But that’s not an argument to have a second referendum which would be just as stupid but now for more reasons than existed prior to the first referendum.
On the questions, why just the deal on the table? Quite a few people think it’s possible to renegotiate that deal for a better one. I personally think a better deal could have been negotiated but not sure that would be possible now as the EU wouldn’t want to lose face.
Are there really so many different plans though? To leave is to leave but some plans are just pretending to leave. Disregard those and there’s not a great deal to argue about.
Just dealing with the high profile options, there's
1 the May plan
2 the Cornyn concept
3 the Rees Mogg/WTO option.
It's like saying there's a majority to leave Newcastle but no agreement whether to go north, South or west.
Somebodys pinched my sombrero
Well-Known Member
It was a vote that should never have happened. Cameron knew the **** storm that would follow and bailed out sharpish. I'm no over of Theresa May, but she's been on a hiding to nowt since she took over.
That said, the majority of the people want out so that should happen, or there's no such thing as democracy in our country. I voted leave, not because I know great deal about politics, but the leave party put up a much better argument than the remainders at the time. If I had the vote again,I'd stay the same because I'm pissed off with the "we want anther vote" folk.
Sorry, but that 'undemocratic' argument is fallacious in so many ways. New elections take place, new motions, laws changed, policy revisited. Just how democratic is this country anyhow?
Smegh....bloody hell, that's so Red Dwarf (one of Heed's favourite shows if I remember correctly). Maybe he should rename himself SmegHeed in honour of his 'sarcasm'?
Sunderland first vote in to leave,no surprise since they haven't been there for nearly 50 years.
I'm a remainer but this argument does make me laugh a little. There may be an argument to be had on whether the vote should have taken place. However I don't get this argument we should re-run a vote because we were lied to. I reckon the majority made up their mind long before a politician opened their mouths. I certainly knew I was being lied to throughout by both campaigns too. Were there people out there actually being swayed by what was said? I don't think as many as the bitter remainers would like to have you believe.
I've listened for decades of people wanting out of Europe. It had nothing to do with our borders either. If I had a £1 for every time I've heard the phrases "why are we being governed by Europe" "we should make our own laws" etc etc I'd be living in the Bahamas. Whether it was the grading or import/export of our food, legal precedents being used, etc etc there has long been an antipathy towards our relationship with Europe that a lot of remainers can't seem to grasp. I've not understood this from day 1 to be honest - its been there since we entered the bloody thing! Now the leave campaign exploited the buzz subject of our borders on top, but it was really just building on an undercurrent of not feeling at one with our European colleagues since way back. To be honest looking at the behaviour of the european side during these talks, they don't half make it easy to dislike their arrogance - we must just remember that these pricks are politicians and similar to our own, are difficult to like and not representative of our people.
It isn't being warped by propaganda pushed out by the press, its just the way people in Britain feel about that relationship. The press may play on it, but its not created by them. I think because remainers don't feel that towards the relationship with Europe, they are unwilling to accept that the majority of other people do. People can argue to the cows come home about whether there is a majority, that is why we have votes. Of the people who arsed themselves to vote, the majority want to leave. Once you've said they have choice, you have to carry out their will, its the democratic and right thing to do.
I am yet to hear a sound argument for re-running the vote. People keep banging on we know more now. We do but I personally don't see an appetite for a rerun bar from remainers who haven't accepted the vote. I also don't believe the vote would change so we are just wasting more time and money - that is just my personal opinion. I mean people do realise that the leave and remain campaign would just lie all over again like they both did last time? Its called campaigning and happens every vote.
I don't think the option of returning to the European fold should be discounted forever either. Perhaps in the future the majority will want back in, if that happens and a vote takes place, I'd expect the result to be respected. At present the majority wanted out at the time of the vote so that is what should happen. When discussing that with a friend he said to me, "we shouldn't throw it away our membership, we'd get a really **** deal if we want back in at some stage". As I said to him, that is not a reason to not do what the majority want now. We'll just have to accept the consequences of the decision.