Off Topic BREXIT

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How will you be voting?

  • Remain

    Votes: 89 46.1%

  • Leave

    Votes: 104 53.9%
  • Total voters
    193
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brownbagtiger said:
You do understand, don't you, that for many of us who voted Remain and are dismayed at the result, it is because we genuinely believe this is a bad thing for the country. And we are frustrated as we believe that many of the things that people who voted Brexit think they are getting, are simply not going to happen.

Eg half of all immigration to the UK is from outside the EU, so already totally within our own ability to control and not the EU's fault. A net migration of 188,000 non-EU people last year (http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-statistics ), so even if we stopped all EU immigration tomorrow, we would still be above the target net immigration from all countries (100,000 was Cameron's pledge) and it is still not the EU's fault.
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The ignorance of the voter. It's all about immigration.brexit using na zi es que propaganda to fuel hatred towards migrants coming here in search of something better. They come here as there is opportunity. Spain doesn't have this.....as there is no work.....its a positive.
 
MadridTiger said:
Was shocked to see Hull vote overwhelmingly leave. City of culture? Hmmm you won't get what you voted for. The whole referendum has been a disgrace and has truly highlighted how disgusting politics is. Propaganda is well and truly alive and people are as easily manipulated today than they were in 1933 Germany. Very sad day. Several brexit maps going back on promises already. I hope those that voted that way will hold those politicians accountable when none of what you voted for happen as it will be those that voted brexit worst effected.
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The promises of what would/could happen if we came out were largely made by people who were not in a position to implement any of them.
 
MadridTiger said:
The ignorance of the voter. It's all about immigration.brexit using na zi es que propaganda to fuel hatred towards migrants coming here in search of something better. They come here as there is opportunity. Spain doesn't have this.....as there is no work.....its a positive.
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They are not all asylum seekers and refugees fleeing in fear of their lives then?
 
originallambrettaman said:
The promises of what would/could happen if we came out were largely made by people who were not in a position to implement any of them.
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So why vote that way? I would think for someone who doesn't really care too much a bout politics may see who was on the side of brexit. Trump, le pen, putin basically any far right group. Sepera ting ourselves is not a good thing. We need to work together to improve. I am personally disheartened with the 17m of my fellow brit's. I'm yet to hear an argument where a brexit is a good thing.
 
Old Tige said:
I was keeping it simple in respect for your intellect.

If you really want to have a clue about what you are blindly dismissing, try this:-

http://www.infoshop.org/AnarchistFAQSectionB2

A bit wordy compared with your usual reading (The Sun?) but perhaps when your minder returns, they might read it out to you.
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My reading is far wider than the comical stuff you keep referring to. Hell, I even read the Guardian. For a laugh of course.
 
Castro's Coffin said:
They are not all asylum seekers and refugees fleeing in fear of their lives then?
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Immigrants contribute a lot more than they take out. I'd rather any hardworking European contributing than any lazy so and so claiming. If you have voted because of the immigration argument you have well and truly been duped and I hope you hold those accountable for it when none of their promises happen
 
MadridTiger said:
So why vote that way? I would think for someone who doesn't really care too much a bout politics may see who was on the side of brexit. Trump, le pen, putin basically any far right group. Sepera ting ourselves is not a good thing. We need to work together to improve. I am personally disheartened with the 17m of my fellow brit's. I'm yet to hear an argument where a brexit is a good thing.
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I suggest you devote some time to sorting out the considerably worse situation in Spain.
 
originallambrettaman said:
Quite possibly, but it doesn't pay the bills.

For me, what's most concerning, is that we've come out with absolutely no plan for what happens next. Nobody knows what replacement deal will be done with the EU, which is fair enough, nobody expected we'd be able to find out until we left. But I've not heard anyone say anything at all about any potential new trade deal with anyone else.

We left the EU with promises of increased worldwide trade as a result of being able to negotiate our own trade deals, but nobody has suggested what sort of deals we'll do and who we'll do them with. People also seem to be overlooking the fact that the new trade deal we do with the EU will have restrictions in it that will limit what we can do anyway.

It was quite an achievement getting people to vote leave, when in the end we'll still be sending money to Brussels, we'll still be allowing free movement to large numbers of EU members and we haven't got a single suggestion on what benefits there will actually be.
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You've made that up haven't you?
None of that is true. We have to negotiate with the EU and the rest of the world. You make out that joining the EU is a one way street - you are in and you can never leave. Now we can make decisions in the best interests of the country. If the EU sells more to the UK than the UK sells to the EU then the EU should be paying us for the benefit of such a deal. I dont see any reason why we would agree to free movement of labour in any trade deal. The TTIP agreement being made with the USA doesn't insist on free movement of labour between the EU and USA.
 
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MadridTiger said:
Immigrants contribute a lot more than they take out. I'd rather any hardworking European contributing than any lazy so and so claiming. If you have voted because of the immigration argument you have well and truly been duped and I hope you hold those accountable for it when none of their promises happen
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Nothing against the many hardworking immigrants from Poland, Bulgaria etc I keep coming across sround my way. Many more pleasant than some of the surly resentful locals who seem to think that their D level in Media Studies entitles them to interesting well paid employment and not whatbtheynare having todo which they consider beneath them. Not so sure about some of the others who make no effort to work or integrate and think we should take care of them.
Was looked after by some very pleasant nurses from Spain the last couple of times I was in hospital recently. Professional, well trained but can't get a job back in Spain. Pity we can't train more like them instead of cutting back and importing them. They have no intention of returning, they love it 'oop north and think Spain is up the creek.
 
brownbagtiger said:
You do understand, don't you, that for many of us who voted Remain and are dismayed at the result, it is because we genuinely believe this is a bad thing for the country. And we are frustrated as we believe that many of the things that people who voted Brexit think they are getting, are simply not going to happen.

Eg half of all immigration to the UK is from outside the EU, so already totally within our own ability to control and not the EU's fault. A net migration of 188,000 non-EU people last year (http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-statistics ), so even if we stopped all EU immigration tomorrow, we would still be above the target net immigration from all countries (100,000 was Cameron's pledge) and it is still not the EU's fault.
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What I understand is that millions of Leave voters feel they have nowt to lose, as they live in places abandoned by successive Londoncentric governments and the obsequious smug media who infest the place.
Now these Remain voters get to feel a fraction of the pain felt by communities all over Britain, and they're squealing like pigs, and showing themselves up with embarrassing comments about the intelligence, age and education of the majority of voters. Poor losers.
Has Hull got an electrified rail service yet? No
Has the M62 been extended to Hull yet? No
Not much sign of EU benevolence locally, just a rotting Lord Line building where our fishing industry used to be. I'm sure other parts of the kingdom have similar views, and the malaise is not necessarily down to the EU or even the current govt., but people presumably feel that someone needs to be told.
It's not the EU's task to build these projects but many communities feel they have **** all trickle down from Brussels. What we have had, though, is a trickle through our porous borders of chancers from all over the globe, and that concerns people, especially as there seems no will or mechanism to stop it.
 
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MadridTiger said:
So why vote that way? I would think for someone who doesn't really care too much a bout politics may see who was on the side of brexit. Trump, le pen, putin basically any far right group. Sepera ting ourselves is not a good thing. We need to work together to improve. I am personally disheartened with the 17m of my fellow brit's. I'm yet to hear an argument where a brexit is a good thing.
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Have the auditors signed off the EU books yet?
 
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Castro's Coffin said:
Nothing against the many hardworking immigrants from Poland, Bulgaria etc I keep coming across sround my way. Many more pleasant than some of the surly resentful locals who seem to think that their D level in Media Studies entitles them to interesting well paid employment and not whatbtheynare having todo which they consider beneath them. Not so sure about some of the others who make no effort to work or integrate and think we should take care of them.
Was looked after by some very pleasant nurses from Spain the last couple of times I was in hospital recently. Professional, well trained but can't get a job back in Spain. Pity we can't train more like them instead of cutting back and importing them. They have no intention of returning, they love it 'oop north and think Spain is up the creek.
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Agree completely. THe brexiters (according to the demographic) will ultimately be those that will suffer. The politicians who were overwhelmingly remain will now have to try and arrange something. So now remains have to arrange the mess the brexiters have voted us into. There are no positives.
 
City Man said:
What I understand is that millions of Leave voters feel they have nowt to lose, as they live in places abandoned by successive Londoncentric governments and the obsequious smug media who infest the place.
Now these Remain voters get to feel a fraction of the pain felt by communities all over Britain, and they're squealing like pigs, and showing themselves up with embarrassing comments about the intelligence, age and education of the majority of voters. Poor losers.
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statistics breaking down the proportions of votes along age and education (which is not the same as intelligence) are neutral facts and not a value judgement.
City Man said:
Has Hull got an electrified rail service yet? No
Has the M62 been extended to Hull yet? No
Not much sign of EU benevolence locally, just a rotting Lord Line building where our fishing industry used to be.
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And just what do Brexiters think will happen differently now for those examples? And who are you going to blame when nothing changes?

Look, I get the argument that this is a protest vote, I think one of the best explanations I've read so far is http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/06/i-want-my-country-back

There are huge areas of post-industrial decline and neglect where people are more furious than Cameron and his ilk could possibly understand, areas where any kind of antiestablishment rabble-rousing sounds like a clarion call. In depressed mountain villages and knackered seaside towns and burned-out former factory heartlands across the country, ordinary people were promised that for once, their vote would matter, that they could give the powers that be a poke in the eye. Westminster may have underestimated how very much it is hated by those to whom mainstream politics have not spoken in generations.

But honestly, when you've got over the laughing and pointing and shouting "loser" at us, what do you think is going to happen?
 
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