Off Topic BREXIT

[petersaxton]

It could mean the break-up of the United Kingdom, possibly a united Ireland, possibly the loss of Gibraltar, the opt outs for the City of London torn up over-night, a fee of £300 million a day to join a free trade agreement, unlimited immigration from the EU, unrestricted access to in-work benefits for EU citizens, the EU telling us what we can and cannot export to them under a free trade agreement and what goods will be excluded from any free trade agreement with the rest of the world.

That is what the next Tory leader is likely to sign. Unless they get support from the Labour Party they are likely to face electoral meltdown if they bring home a deal like that.

Can you explain why there is the slightest chance of the loss of Gibraltar?

 

[petersaxton]

The markets hate uncertainty.

We've voted to leave and Cameron has walked away from actioning it, leaving the job to his successor in October at the earliest. So we face 4 months of complete political inertia. If you think that's a recipe for anything other than market turmoil then you're delusional

I think it's you that is delusional. Where do you get October from? Because Cameron mentioned it when he said he wanted a successor in place by the time of the next party conference?
I think the party will want the new leader in place as quickly as possible. Don't go by what the BBC says.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_(UK)_leadership_election,_2016

 

[Old Tige]

It seems like your definition of "silly question" is something you can't answer.

You seem incapable of producing an answer to how the Leave/Remain decision could be decided in a democratic way.

I have no interest in deciding which gang of slave masters.we submit too or in the mechanism that might be used to do so. It's an absurd situation. No rational society would allow itself to be reduced to such a position in the first place.

If we had a democracy in the first place, the decision wouldn't have needed to be made.

 

[trouserpress]

Can you explain why there is the slightest chance of the loss of Gibraltar?

Gibraltar relies on access to the single market almost entirely. Hence why over 90% voted for remain. A condition proposed by the largest political party in spain is to make gibraltar's access to the single market post brexit dependent on shared sovereignty over Gibraltar. It's all there in various newspapers if you want to research it. Might not be in the Express admittedly.

 

[Old Tige]

I've never mentioned my IQ and when I asked a question about IQ tests you panicked and thought I was asking about your IQ. Says it all really.

???

 

[petersaxton]

I have no interest in deciding which gang of slave masters.we submit too or in the mechanism that might be used to do so. It's an absurd situation. No rational society would allow itself to be reduced to such a position in the first place.

If we had a democracy in the first place, the decision wouldn't have needed to be made.

What does any of that mean? You can't even explain what your democracy consists of.

 

[modnrock]

We can buy sugar from w indies, wheat from Canada rather than europe. Now we have options the EU have to be careful. Normal businesses across EU dont want restriction. I. know the EU bosses will try but common sense should prevail. Its the economy! EU fecks about too much they drive more exits on more far right nutters more instability. That is the worst of our exit.

 

[Tobes]

I think it's you that is delusional. Where do you get October from? Because Cameron mentioned it when he said he wanted a successor in place by the time of the next party conference?
I think the party will want the new leader in place as quickly as possible. Don't go by what the BBC says.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_(UK)_leadership_election,_2016

Cameron himself said it we should aim to have a successor in place by the start of the conference in October.

Nice swerve of countering the main crux of my post btw I.e. the uncertainty in the markets

 

[Clovis Iscariot]

Although there were calls for referendums in Europe inspired by the Brexit vote, I think the post referendum mess here will make other Europeans more cautious about leaving. They'll see the facts surrounding the reality of leaving the EU whereas I believe voters here chose Brexit on the basis of how they thought it all might pan out i.e. their personal fiction.The ghastly Farage has suggested other countries will follow suit and put an end to the "European experiment". I think he's completely wrong. Europeans will see us tussling with the painful intricacies of negotiating an exit and decide to stay put, given that the world already offers enough uncertainty without opting for more. I'm deeply saddened about the outcome of the referendum.

Have you been on Facebook and Twitter for a group hug with like minded folk such as yourself.

 

[petersaxton]

Gibraltar relies on access to the single market almost entirely. Hence why over 90% voted for remain. A condition proposed by the largest political party in spain is to make gibraltar's access to the single market post brexit dependent on shared sovereignty over Gibraltar. It's all there in various newspapers if you want to research it. Might not be in the Express admittedly.

Gibraltar will never give up their sovereignty. That's as likely to happen as the Falklands giving up their sovereignty.

 

[petersaxton]

Cameron himself said it we should aim to have a successor in place by the start of the conference in October.

Nice swerve of countering the main crux of my post btw I.e. the uncertainty in the markets

You seem obsessed with being ignored. I'm saying that there wont be a delay of four months. The party conference is just over three months away - 2 to 5th of October. The Conservative Party will get on with the vote(s) as quickly as possible precisely because they will want to minimise uncertainty.

 

[Edelman]

I'm afraid I take issue with this argument as regards to bricklayers, they were not all like the cheery Auf Wiedersehen lot portrayed on TV, indeed bricklayers could earn some great money, London and the likes but when winter came it was all evened out over the year to be nothing extraordinary in terms of pay for the slog they had to endure. Plumbers and electricians were different as they could work indoors, but bricklayers were open to the elements so rain, snow, ice, even heavy frosts meant 'sorry lads no work today'. And that meant them going home with no pay as many were changing over to self employment instead of 'on the books', at one time bricklayers were also plasterers, tilers (wall and floor not roof tilers) so had inside work, as long as the temperatures didn't go too low, it was plus 2 and falling then worked stopped.

Many brickies went to work in Germany but the contractors were actually Dutch and I had a few friends who having done the work were then ripped off as the agents had disappeared with the wages so our lads were broke and in a foreign country, literally up the creek without a paddle. I myself never fancied working abroad as much as I never fancied going self employed despite 'poachers' trying to get us to sign contracts to work where we could double, or even treble, our level of pay at the time. But even now, I was in London last week, the level of building there is unbelievable to what is going on in Hull so yet again I suspect that the South is where the money is yet again, I'm glad that I do not have to chip ice off a wall before I could continue to build on it any more, and yes we had covered the wall with hessian sacking before anyone says.

Yes like i said i was in it 20 years so remember the tough years.
You make hay when the sun shines though and i had avdecade of goid money.
Not sure what youre disagreeing with.

 

[trouserpress]

Gibraltar will never give up their sovereignty. That's as likely to happen as the Falklands giving up their sovereignty.

I have no idea whether it will happen or not. Neither do you. You asked why there was the slightest chance of losing Gibraltar, I merely relayed the widely reported news. Up to you how likely you want to think it is of happening. If you don't want answers don't ask questions.

 

[petersaxton]

I have no idea whether it will happen or not. Neither do you. You asked why there was the slightest chance of losing Gibraltar, I merely relayed the widely reported news. Up to you how likely you want to think it is of happening. If you don't want answers don't ask questions.

What caused that irrelevant comment?

 

[DMD]

The markets hate uncertainty.

We've voted to leave and Cameron has walked away from actioning it, leaving the job to his successor in October at the earliest. So we face 4 months of complete political inertia. If you think that's a recipe for anything other than market turmoil then you're delusional

There are plenty of controls on industry, so maybe it's time to put more control on financial markets to stop it behaving like a horse startled by a leaf because it thinks it will kill it.

The situation wasn't much more certain before the vote, and nothing is liable to actually change for months, and even then it will be done with economics in mind.

 

[Old Tige]

What does any of that mean? You can't even explain what your democracy consists of.

Are you suggesting that if I did, you would consider it on it's merits and return with rational and constructive criticism? I suspect you wouldn't as your own mindset was cast by the indoctrination of your formative years which you are so proud of.

It can't be done in a face book style soundbite. Sorry, you will have to do your own research.

There are innumerable examples both in practice and theoretical. If I wasted my time explaining them all to you it would take many long posts and references to many wordy documents and books. I doubt you would bother reading them if I did and I don't think this forum is the place for them. Neither am I interested (despite your obvious and irritating fascination with mine) in your opinion. It being fixated in outmoded left v right rhetoric and the denial of any alternative.

Could you give a worthwhile comprehensive description of what your democracy consists of?

(Rhetorical question, please spare me)

 

[petersaxton]

I said: I've never mentioned my IQ and when I asked a question about IQ tests you panicked and thought I was asking about your IQ. Says it all really.

???

You really seem to have a problem with comprehension don't you?

 

[Old Tige]

!

 

[Edelman]

What caused that irrelevant comment?

I think everyone should take a breather.
I voted in but can see both sides of the argument where most on here cant.
Lets see after negotiations because it may end up to something similar to what we have and im sure THEN both sudes will claim victory.

 

[petersaxton]

Are you suggesting that if I did, you would consider it on it's merits and return with rational and constructive criticism? I suspect you wouldn't as your own mindset was cast by the indoctrination of your formative years which you are so proud of.

It can't be done in a face book style soundbite. Sorry, you will have to do your own research.

There are innumerable examples both in practice and theoretical. If I wasted my time explaining them all to you it would take many long posts and references to many wordy documents and books. I doubt you would bother reading them if I did and I don't think this forum is the place for them. Neither am I interested (despite your obvious and irritating fascination with mine) in your opinion. It being fixated in outmoded left v right rhetoric and the denial of any alternative.

Could you give a worthwhile comprehensive description of what your democracy consists of?

(Rhetorical question, please spare me)

I think the present system with a tweak for the alternative vote (I made a mistake about the name earlier) would be preferable.
http://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/alternative-vote
When there are single issues of such fundamental importance such as Scottish independence, EU remain/leave and major changes to the constitution I think referendums are required.
Wasn't too hard was it?