This is perhaps a debate for another thread. As I've said before, I'm not directly involved with the OSC. I help them out with some membership stuff, but I'm certainly not a decision maker. I'm sure it wasn't perfect, but they did a good job and several issues were sorted through the FLC. I'm not really sure what your argument is, and I think it could go on all night, so I'm not going to go any further with this unless a clear argument is put forward. That sounds like I'm having a go but I'm not at all, I just think this is going nowhere.
Assem Allam
- Thread starter PLT
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This is perhaps a debate for another thread. As I've said before, I'm not directly involved with the OSC. I help them out with some membership stuff, but I'm certainly not a decision maker. I'm sure it wasn't perfect, but they did a good job and several issues were sorted through the FLC. I'm not really sure what your argument is, and I think it could go on all night, so I'm not going to go any further with this unless a clear argument is put forward. That sounds like I'm having a go but I'm not at all, I just think this is going nowhere.
So has the Allam's saga, most of us are fed up of that too, so please give it a fooking rest.
Even a survey of season ticket holders would miss several sections of fans that for a variety of reasons don't have one. I'm also aware that we were almost unique in having a fans panel meeting with the chairman on a regular basis, so I know that to a large extent I'm whinging unduly. My main point was that Assam seems to be trying to gauge fans opinions by talking to someone who, for all the reasons above, doesn't know fans opinions and doesn't represent the majority of fans, so Mr Allam is quite possibly getting poor information. A wider selection wouldn't be perfect, but would be more representative if he's wanting to make informed decisions.
I would hope the OSC is responsible enough to point this out to Mr Allam and not foolhardy enough to try to portray themselves as vox pop.
I think the fact you think the OSC did a good job on there shows you don't get feedback from the bulk of fans.
They have a billionaire owner who bankrolls them, which is what is required to win the Champions League.
Most Football clubs need to be run on sound business principles or face the consequences like Pompey.
Hopefully the new Financial Fair Play rules will help balance things better.
Right, just to clarify, what has Roman Abramovic and Chelsea got to do with what Assem Allam saying ?
Which is the point I've been making. To say 'there's no 100% fair way" is not justification for leaving it with an unrepresentative group, hence why, when you offered to ask questions on my behalf, I asked if you would have it brought to Mr Allam's attention that some feel the OSC does not represent the bulk of fans and is not an effective barometer of fans opinions. I think you've nicely confirmed this in your replies.
So, is the fans rep going to offer a fans opinion to Mr Allam, or effect his own editorial on questions?
That is one of the symptoms of success and although it's irritating to listen to it's also a positive thing because it shows the club has raised the bar.
Consider how upset England supporters are if we don't make the finals of a major competition and compare that to the likes of Scottish supporters who pretty much accept that they will only get to the finals once in a blue moon.
Leeds supporters drive us all mad by going on about how they should be in the Prem., but that shows how high their bar is and they won't give their owners any peace until they achieve it.
Supporters who are satisfied with things just because they're better than the bad old days take the pressure off owners and make mediocrity acceptable.
You said "There are basic principles that apply to every business such as your revenue needs to be greater than your cost base, this isn't applied but needs to be."
The point I am trying to get through to you, if you spend a little less time being sarcastic and a little more time considering what other people say, is that there is little point in you stipulating "What needs to be" when there is no law, no regulation and most importantly, no desire be certain owners to comply with what you say needs to be. So that begs the question, what point is there in stating what needs to be (in some kind of utopian world) when there is no chance of that coming to reality?
So Manchester City are being run on sound business principles are they?
There are no rules whatsoever that say how football is to be run. Even the new Fair Play rules with degenerate into a farce.
For example Manchester City pays a fortune to a limousine company that ferries corporates to and from swanky hotels in Manchester to games. Guess who is one of the directors of this VASTLY overpaid company?
Going by the Cottingham OSC FB page...thats not a supporters club, its a lynch mob. It's everything a supporters club isn't. I've never seen so many axes being ground. I seriously hope the Allam's are not familiar with that bunch of cretins or think they represent anyone other than the idiots spouting bullshit on that page.
Who the **** are you in the life of the Allam's. How the **** do you know that he has never been in somewhere where some form of gambling, charitable or otherwise has taken place; he may have gone to the races for a corportae bash, but he does not have to place a bet! You are just ****ing guessing; is it addictive or what? I'll tell you what is not guessing, no one comes away from a economics degree without the basic rudiments of odds and how they work - it's not shagging rocket-science, it's just maths and the strategy of returns. Believe me, I get the point; you seem to judge AA on your own myopic existance.
Stop adding to the bullshit quota by arguing your origibal incorrect guess.
Economics and Accountancy BSc (Hons) â City of London University
/http://www.city.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/economics-and-accountancy
Just one example of what has been out there for many, many years. Besides the fact that the two disciplines can and do combine when necessary, it is perfectly possible he studied part-time, own-time, distance learning (as in OU). 'Massively experienced accountant' or not (what an incredibly dumb statement) he is no-bodies mug. Back to the original reported remark - it is window dressing on a bloody daft post and blows it away before it gets rolling - excepyt for the terminally gullible.
No, they're being run like Chelsea.
That why I said "most" football clubs, as most don't have billionaire owners to pay the bills.
There actually are laws that all businesses should comply with, I can assure you i'm very familiar with company law, it is illegal to trade while insolvent, football clubs have gotten away with it for far too long and I have no idea how, i'm not looking for utopia just a sense of realism about spending, hopefully the new financial fair play rules will go some way to resolving the issue.
If you're going to chastise me for sarcasm and then patronise me with a lesson in company law can I please ask that you at least get your facts straight first.
So, if he was an accountant for 10 years out of 72 it makes him a massively experienced accountant. You could say he's a child because he was a child for longer than he was an accountant. If you had said a "massively experienced businessman" I would have agreed with you. You could say that Alan Sugar is a market trader because he did it sometime in the past.
You don't need to tell me about economics and accounting degrees. I have an accounting degree and the accounting done on an economics and accounting degree is mickey mouse compared to that done on an accounting degree.
Just because you feel safe behind a keyboard and screen doesn't mean you should swear and be abusive in every post.
Yes he does - through either his manager / agent or himelf; it is very detailed in may ways.
Pointless trying to exdplain how best practice can only be universally applied where there is some form of governing structure to support it and at the moment there isn't.
Switch on your swear filter if you cannot cope with the industrial language your sarcasm and ignorance generates.
You have taken your knowledge of accountancy to new bounds with you maths of 62 years when a short time ago you were not even aware he worked as an accountant for tempest. Over the last 40years I have studied and used a number of disciplines and I can still apply them to my avantage today. I would think a multi-millionaire businessman, owner of his own companies, of many years standing of ups and downs will have a very good grasp on his previous economic and accountancy background - he will pay someone for the day-to-day compliance.
The accountancy on a economics degree may or may not be Mickey Mouse - your posts most certainly are - what an absolute twat you've turned out to be.
What facts are incorrect? Are you saying Chelsea and Manchester City are breaking Company Law?
The fact that was incorrect is that you suggested there are no laws to comply with when there are, company law applies to football in exactly the same way as it does any other business.
Chelsea and Man City I am unsure about, i'd have to read their financial statements, they due to their insanely rich owners will probably have converted their debt so will technically not appear insolvent. Man Utd on the other hand I believe were shown to be trading while insolvent as are many clubs in the English game, can't remember who the study was by but the information is out there if you care to look. There are as with every law loopholes to exploit and I can only assume football clubs manage to exploit these loopholes. The auditors of the football clubs also need to be held more accountable as it is their duty to ensure that if a company is preparing its accounts on a going concern basis that it genuinely is a going concern which a business that doesn't have enough cash and short tem assets to cover its liabilities is not.