Are we in the ****e?

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duggie2000 said:
Deeney has lost his edge as a top striker but we still need him as a captain
Maybe he and Wellbeck can form up a partnership
Gray has lost his form and Delefeou just doesn't seem to care any more
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I think we are going down. I seriously hope not. 8 games in, no win and only 3 points.

I hope I am wrong, I really do.

You must think we are in the ****e n all, right?

Only saing grace might be other teams as ****e as us. That is an olive branch mind.
 
First four games we were the worst
Last four games Spurs, Man United and Everton are doing their best to out do us
I won't give up unless we are mathematically relegated
 
yorkshirehornet said:
Agreed.. I think Gray has never been the player we need. Welbeck and Deeney might just do it for us though.
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Not sure how much hope there is in that partnership Yorkie. Troy has a great influence on the pitch but is little more than a 10 goal per season man (and getting less effective with age) and Welbeck's 16 goals in 5 seasons at Arsenal does not make impressive reading. It is a long time since we had a real predatory striker at the club - of the likes of Matej Vydra or Danny Graham. Also a long time since we had a manager able to bring the best out of such a striker. I just do not know what would happen if we gave a 'real' manager the job - all we get are journeymen from the less successfull end of La liga or Serie A who have never been in one place for longer than 2 years at the most. This is the missing link as far as I am concerned - as long as the Pozzo's are prepared to devalue the role of manager in this way then we are an accident waiting to happen, because, sooner or later, the constellation thrown together for the year is going to be wrong.
 
Under Gracia, Gray was the perfect impact sub at end of last season.
Wellbeck could easily be the main man with his talent, but can he stay fit?
Deeney is not the same player now and I fear he would spend to much time moaning if things did not go his way.
Delefeou is never the main striker type of player, does not have the physical attributes to lead the line and hold the ball up. A number ten type of player at best if not playing out wide.
We needed to bring in a quality goal scorer this season and failed. if Welbeck does not kick on,it was a huge gamble by the club to sign him.
 
We seem to be trying to turn Sarr into a centre forward too..

Success is probably meant to be the big powerful physical force but he either always injured or just rubbish.

Welbeck is a good hard working player but not a natural goalscorer.

Gray would be great in the Championship - like Deeney proven at that level.
 
Well none of our attacking players actually had much of a Pre-season with us .

Sarr and Welbeck signed days before the season started, Pereyra had extra time off due to International commitments whilst Deeney was carrying his knee injury and GD had some knock.

So really the only one with a full Pre season was Gray and well he isn't the answer despite his best efforts ..

No wonder we look disjointed and not got a settled side !
 
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superhorns said:
Thankfully the model is nothing like WFC.
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I am surprised that you cannot see some, not all, of the similarities between this model and WFC. We have seen a similar model replicated by Southampton and then Leicester City in the Premier League: Buy low, develop, sell high, reinvest.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
I am surprised that you cannot see some, not all, of the similarities between this model and WFC. We have seen a similar model replicated by Southampton and then Leicester City in the Premier League: Buy low, develop, sell high, reinvest.
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To be honest Frenchie Monaco had to develop this kind of model because we're talking about a club which has never had much of a revenue from crowd sizes. Their average crowd is just over 8,000 - and where they come from in a place like Monaco is a mystery. A more interesting model is at Ajax - which leaves out the 'buy low' stage - just develop, sell high and reinvest. When they sold Frenkie de Jong and Matthijs de Ligt for a combined 150 million they were looking at players who had been at the club since they were 8 years old ! When they have to replace such players they look at the Jong Ajax team from the second division to see who can make the step up - before looking further afield, and it often works.
 
colognehornet said:
To be honest Frenchie Monaco had to develop this kind of model because we're talking about a club which has never had much of a revenue from crowd sizes. Their average crowd is just over 8,000 - and where they come from in a place like Monaco is a mystery. A more interesting model is at Ajax - which leaves out the 'buy low' stage - just develop, sell high and reinvest. When they sold Frenkie de Jong and Matthijs de Ligt for a combined 150 million they were looking at players who had been at the club since they were 8 years old ! When they have to replace such players they look at the Jong Ajax team from the second division to see who can make the step up - before looking further afield, and it often works.
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Until recently Monao had a big advantage over many clubs due to it's tax haven status, they could offer wages 40% lower than any other french team and the player would still get a pay rise; no tax on transfers either. That changed a few years ago and since then they've been on the slide.
 
colognehornet said:
To be honest Frenchie Monaco had to develop this kind of model because we're talking about a club which has never had much of a revenue from crowd sizes. Their average crowd is just over 8,000 - and where they come from in a place like Monaco is a mystery. A more interesting model is at Ajax - which leaves out the 'buy low' stage - just develop, sell high and reinvest. When they sold Frenkie de Jong and Matthijs de Ligt for a combined 150 million they were looking at players who had been at the club since they were 8 years old ! When they have to replace such players they look at the Jong Ajax team from the second division to see who can make the step up - before looking further afield, and it often works.
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Yes I have seen a few games from Monaco, and it really is dreadful to see a top level club playing in a half empty stadium, even if it is smaller the the Vic. This is actually a complex problem, as very few young players do break through into first team football at the club they first join. There was an article in the summer about how Brighton are going about it, but the difficulties involved. https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...youth-teams-reality-brighton-coach-simon-rusk
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
I am surprised that you cannot see some, not all, of the similarities between this model and WFC. We have seen a similar model replicated by Southampton and then Leicester City in the Premier League: Buy low, develop, sell high, reinvest.
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Every club has some similarities, the Pozzos have successfully employed their methods for 25 years. Nobody can doubt their long term success. The problem this season is simply a lack of investment in the defence and maybe Sarr not quite ready for the prem. Nobody thought that Dawson would be so suspect after his years of good service at West Brom.
 
The tax situation of players at Monaco is well known, but doesn't tell the whole story. When the club was effectively sold in 2011 to the Russian billionaire Dmitry Rybolovlev through a trust fund in his daughters name, the club was at the bottom of Ligue 2. Two seasons later under the guidance of Claudio Ranieri they were runners up in Ligue 1. There had been massive investment in the club, rather like some English clubs buying a team when the cost is secondary. The trust fund wanted some of the money back, bringing about the sell off of high value players.
Currently the club have 20 players out on loan, 7 of them to Cercle Brugge. Cercle Brugge effectively went bust, but were saved in 2017 when they were bought and are now owned by AS Monaco, or Dmitry Rybolovlev.
 
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