Er Frenchie - the last really predatory goal scorers on a regular basis for us have been Matej Vydra and Danny Graham. If they really are looking for natural, regular goal getters then they are falling short in this as well. The Pozzo model is really a European one where they often have a reserve team playing regularly in a lower league - in that scenario you can afford to have squads of 30+ knowing that their game is developing. At one point we had 35 squad players - the only other club I know with such a large squad is Ajax, but they also have Jong Ajax playing in the second division. We have too many players at our club whose careers are going backwards. Who was actually the last player that we sold for a handsome profit ? Surely it would have been better to preserve the Harefield Academy if this was really the goal. Compare this to Ajax who recently sold Matthijs de Ligt for 75 million and Frenkie de Jong for the same price - both of whom cost exactly nothing, having joined the youth squads at 8 and 9 years old, respectively.
Are we in the ****e?
- Thread starter Mexican Hornet
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I confess to actually forgetting him (easy thing to do) - I guess that you will always find some mug ready to pay over the odds. I do not, however, recall that his form improved over the course of the season with us and so, how we managed to make a profit there is beyond me.
As mentioned we did sell Richarlison and Igahlo for large profits for a club our size. You say about squad sizes, but seem to overlook that Chelsea have 41 players out on loan. Despite the fact that Harefield Academy has a glowing reputation if you look at where the products of that system are now, there are very few who have made the grade. We currently have 9 players out on loan where they are supposed to be getting game time. Our latest centre back is the 19 year old Ben Wilmot on a season long loan at Swansea. He is not even getting on the bench at the moment. A few players will come through, but the number who fail is far higher at every club.
You're focusing on players Frenchie, and it is not individual players that win matches but teams. SH will shudder if he reads this but football is a socialist sport in that the collective will always be more important than the individual. Probably no surprise then that so many of our greatest managers have been socialists - Shanks, Busby, Clough, Ferguson - Shankly even used to drum it into the players that every single supporter was more important to the club than they were. I know that the days of such managerial dynasties are over (unfortunately). But. at the same time, the manager is the most important cog at every club - yet we have downgraded the role through not allowing them any say in recruitment whatsoever - the 'great' managers always built their own teams, but ours cannot do that. This is the missing link in the Pozzo plan - and possibly the reason why one manager after another loses control of the dressing room and leaves under a cloud.
A very interesting concept when you see clubs being bought and sold as commodities on the international market. I suspect that the owner is the most important part of a club these days, and if he/they are prepared to give the funding to the manager/coach that is being asked for. Of course you are right that a single player cannot make a team, and all of the "great" managers have bought some who turned out to be duffs. GT was given a freehand to run the club as he wanted, but even he would not be able to deal with all the aspects of running a PL side these days. The coaches that we have do have some input into having a say about a player coming to the club, and that has to be right, but there have been cases where directors of football at other clubs have brought in players that the manager/coach has never seen, and does not want. I see the logic of the Pozzo plan that ensures the club is not badly hit if the season doesn't go well, and also that the coaches that they employ know exactly what the setup is before they come in. What I would question is are they employing the right people as the head coach. That is difficult to answer when you see that across the whole PL since it was formed, the average manager/coach will work for two different clubs, and in total be employed in the PL for a total of less than two and a half years. WFC seeing those statistics are not really so different taking the long serving managers out of the figures. I feel there is a huge chunk of luck involved if owners get the right man and players together in a season, and maybe having a large choice of players within a squad is right, but that does create different problems with those who are always on the fringes.
In short, I don’t think we’re completely in it yet. However, in the next two games, a total of one or two points (i.e. no wins in 8) and we’re in it. Three points or more in the next two and I don’t think we’re in it, yet.
I agree, all the time that you can put two wins together and potentially climb halfway up the table there is still hope. The main thing is, has this mauling got the players running to hide, embarrassed? or has it got them pumped and ready to show that they are capable of playing and competing in this league? If the former then we are definitely in the proverbial!!!
I sooooooo hope it is the latter, as do most, but i still have a sick feeling when i look back to Saturday, and i didnt even go!!
Well we surely cannot defend any worse ?
I mean it is probably forgotten about but 4 of the first 5 goals came either from fouls by us leading to penalties/free kicks and a total lack of marking from a set play .
The next 2 were when we had the ball in the full back position and lost it.
KDB goal was a top quality striker but we really did shoot ourselves in the foot.
That sort of defending would have been punished by many teams .
I mean it is probably forgotten about but 4 of the first 5 goals came either from fouls by us leading to penalties/free kicks and a total lack of marking from a set play .
The next 2 were when we had the ball in the full back position and lost it.
KDB goal was a top quality striker but we really did shoot ourselves in the foot.
That sort of defending would have been punished by many teams .
If the defence doesn't miraculously improve I can't see us outscoring teams to win that is the worry.
Doomed, not yet I guess but the signs are very bad indeed.
Doomed, not yet I guess but the signs are very bad indeed.
The players just need to turn up and do their job, something they failed abjectly to do on Saturday.
yorkshirehornet
Well-Known Member
There were clear signs that he had lost the dressing room when he was last with us... And tactically he was very wooden IMO
I wonder if some players are having some afters.. In a match they knew was doomed? ...
I wonder if some players are having some afters.. In a match they knew was doomed? ...
The worst thing that can happen is we end up in the Championship next season
The second worst thing would be if the Pozzos sold the club to the highest bidder
The third worst thing that can happen is we are bought by a bunch of billionaires who will invest billions into the club to buy Champions League football
While I am not happy with any of those options does anyone really wish for the good old days when we struggled to stay afloat with owners like Bassini and sold all our best players every year
I thought not
If we end up like Bury. Bolton and Luton ten years ago, then we can truly say we have sunk beyond trace in the S***E
I cant see that happening any time soon
I am pretty sure the Pozzos can see the main problems and will do everything they can in the next transfer to resolve them
The amusing thing is the fans of the BIG clubs like Spurs, Man United, Newcastle etc think they are deeper in the S***E than we think we are
The second worst thing would be if the Pozzos sold the club to the highest bidder
The third worst thing that can happen is we are bought by a bunch of billionaires who will invest billions into the club to buy Champions League football
While I am not happy with any of those options does anyone really wish for the good old days when we struggled to stay afloat with owners like Bassini and sold all our best players every year
I thought not
If we end up like Bury. Bolton and Luton ten years ago, then we can truly say we have sunk beyond trace in the S***E
I cant see that happening any time soon
I am pretty sure the Pozzos can see the main problems and will do everything they can in the next transfer to resolve them
The amusing thing is the fans of the BIG clubs like Spurs, Man United, Newcastle etc think they are deeper in the S***E than we think we are
Those clubs and the ones in League I are the clubs that overspent and could not sustain the expenditure
The Pozzos if anything are doing it on the cheap and mostly it has worked and I cant see them not trying to get the couple of players we need and risk seeing the whole project totally collapse
The Pozzos if anything are doing it on the cheap and mostly it has worked and I cant see them not trying to get the couple of players we need and risk seeing the whole project totally collapse
For several years Udinese have struggled and looked as if relegation was beckoning them. Each year players and often coaches have been found to keep them in the top division.