Are we attacking ourselves?

[Montysoptician]

Surely you’d only do that if you weren’t happy with the club?

Not at all, I have loved the club for over 60 years, but at my age if I find it too much hassle I can choose my matches and attend if and when I feel like it. The negativity directed at the club from some fans is overbearing at the moment and not enjoyable at all.
I said considering and will probably still buy the season cards because it's easier than buying matchday tickets.

 

[Nonsense Potter]

Not at all, I have loved the club for over 60 years, but at my age if I find it too much hassle I can choose my matches and attend if and when I feel like it. The negativity directed at the club from some fans is overbearing at the moment and not enjoyable at all.
I said considering and will probably still buy the season cards because it's easier than buying matchday tickets.

You can attend on completely your own terms, mate. Dont need to engage with any social media at all. It's voluntary. The only negativity in that event will be what you genuinely feel and observe. And that's allowed. Not that you've ever had an issue expressing your own negativity...every game...more or less without fail...

That said, given all you've seen in 60 years, I highly doubt this point in time would be the point where the negativity is genuinely overwhelming. Perhaps, it's just the point where negativity is getting more exposure than it normally would, due to forums like this, Facebook, twitter etc. Easily remedied. Dont read any of it.

 

[Vincemac]

Not at all, I have loved the club for over 60 years, but at my age if I find it too much hassle I can choose my matches and attend if and when I feel like it. The negativity directed at the club from some fans is overbearing at the moment and not enjoyable at all.
I said considering and will probably still buy the season cards because it's easier than buying matchday tickets.

I get where you coming from mate
I’ve had difficult seasons over the years with work and family commitments
I’ll just hang on in and enjoy what I can
My brother is struggling with performance juggling life and health although we still manage our holidays
He misses a few
However we still have our season card to use as will

 

[Montysoptician]

You can attend on completely your own terms, mate. Dont need to engage with any social media at all. It's voluntary. The only negativity in that event will be what you genuinely feel and observe. And that's allowed. Not that you've ever had an issue expressing your own negativity...every game...more or less without fail...

That said, given all you've seen in 60 years, I highly doubt this point in time would be the point where the negativity is genuinely overwhelming. Perhaps, it's just the point where negativity is getting more exposure than it normally would, due to forums like this, Facebook, twitter etc. Easily remedied. Dont read any of it.

??? I can't remember ever being negative about the club. I am one of the most positive people I know.

 

[Montysoptician]

I get where you coming from mate
I’ve had difficult seasons over the years with work and family commitments
I’ll just hang on in and enjoy what I can
My brother is struggling with performance juggling life and health although we still manage our holidays
He misses a few
However we still have our season card to use as will

Winter blues me thinks Vince. I am sure I will renew, purely because it's more hassle buying matchday tickets

 

[Vincemac]

Winter blues me thinks Vince. I am sure I will renew, purely because it's more hassle buying matchday tickets

Yeah I agree

 

[The Norton Cat]

You can attend on completely your own terms, mate. Dont need to engage with any social media at all. It's voluntary. The only negativity in that event will be what you genuinely feel and observe. And that's allowed. Not that you've ever had an issue expressing your own negativity...every game...more or less without fail...

That said, given all you've seen in 60 years, I highly doubt this point in time would be the point where the negativity is genuinely overwhelming. Perhaps, it's just the point where negativity is getting more exposure than it normally would, due to forums like this, Facebook, twitter etc. Easily remedied. Dont read any of it.

I've noticed a bit of a tendency on here to play down the impact of social media. We must have all read of the studies identifying direct links between social media use and depression.

While it's true that the individual can just not engage with it and therefore not be affected by what appears there, there are plenty of people who can't or won't disengage from it. People's opinions are formed through what they read online. If what people constantly see is negativity then their own opinions become increasingly negative towards the club and the negativity is propagated to other people, not only in their online interactions, but also in their 'real world' interactions. The club can try to counteract this with good PR but people have a tendency to believe what they see as a maverick lone voice claiming to have a hidden truth over what they see as the establishment, in this case, the club (this, I believe, has been scientifically/sociologically proven and its why there has been such huge increase in people believing pseudo-science in recent years). So, the negative stuff posted on here, on social media, and by the various fanzines and podcasts could well be making for a more negative fan base than we would have in previous decades and, potentially, under worse owners.

That's not to forget that, without social media, very few people would have seen the signs in the Black Cats Bar, the club could have dealt with quickly and quietly and there would have been no scandal.

 

[Smug in Boots]

I've noticed a bit of a tendency on here to play down the impact of social media. We must have all read of the studies identifying direct links between social media use and depression.

While it's true that the individual can just not engage with it and therefore not be affected by what appears there, there are plenty of people who can't or won't disengage from it. People's opinions are formed through what they read online. If what people constantly see is negativity then their own opinions become increasingly negative towards the club and the negativity is propagated to other people, not only in their online interactions, but also in their 'real world' interactions. The club can try to counteract this with good PR but people have a tendency to believe what they see as a maverick lone voice claiming to have a hidden truth over what they see as the establishment, in this case, the club (this, I believe, has been scientifically/sociologically proven and its why there has been such huge increase in people believing pseudo-science in recent years). So, the negative stuff posted on here, on social media, and by the various fanzines and podcasts could well be making for a more negative fan base than we would have in previous decades and, potentially, under worse owners.

That's not to forget that, without social media, very few people would have seen the signs in the Black Cats Bar, the club could have dealt with quickly and quietly and there would have been no scandal.

There's truth in what you say but there are more people, on here, who are positive.

And, tbh, most of the Sunderland supporters I know don't go on forums.

As with the fanzines, etc, some people on forums convince themselves they're speaking for everyone ...

... because, on forums, they can't see people rolling their eyes or hear them laughing.

The outrage, at times, is out of all proportion imo.

 

[dred]

I've dithered around for days about whether I should post my opinion or not. Then I faffed around thinking whether to put it on the 'ambition' thread or another. I didn't want to derail them, hence this.

I've had a look around social media, etc and was finally pushed into posting by reading the 'Quinn's Bar' thread on RTG.

I totally understand all the frustration, anger, etc, regarding our progress, the coach situation, BCB, etc ...

... but surely there comes a point whereby we're just attacking ourselves and falling out.

We all really know, whether we like it or not, that KLD, KS, MB aren't going to be forced out by the relentless bile and hatred. So, imo, all it does is distract from the next game and the rest of the season.
We know, from O'Nien's Twitter posts, that the players read what we post and it has to be demoralising imo.

I'm probably a bit too 'rose tinted' from some people but I grew up supporting the club when we'd defend it against any attacks and have our backs to the wall even when it all looked lost. It now looks like we're fighting against the club, and each other, to the point where other club's supporters are commenting on the infighting and laughing it up at our expense.

The club f*cked up, they've apologised and will hopefully speed up the improvements ...

... we're still in with a chance of the play-offs, we've all expressed our anger/disappointment//etc, so can't we now concentrate on the football, the Ipswich game and the transfer window.

Just a thought, shoot me down if I'm out of order.

This.
we're still in with a chance of the play-offs, we've all expressed our anger/disappointment//etc, so can't we now concentrate on the football, the Ipswich game and the transfer window.

 

[Smug in Boots]

This.
we're still in with a chance of the play-offs, we've all expressed our anger/disappointment//etc, so can't we now concentrate on the football, the Ipswich game and the transfer window.

Sadly there are those who believe their 'KLD out' campaign is gaining momentum ...

... not right in the head imo, absolutely no idea who they want instead.

Do these idiots really believe the best way to attract a new owner is to hound out the existing one, ffs man

 

[Hettonista]

I've left this place alone since the derby as loads on at work and can't be chewed with moaning and bickering sometimes. To be clear I get to maybe 4 games a season so those that express their views strongly probably have more right than me, all I'm saying is, I can't be arsed with it.
My view doesn't change. We're well run, it'd be nice to have a couple of more quality players, I can't fault the lads effort and some even have some skill! Anyway, not sure where any upset is coming from really given we have hardly bordered perfection in my lifetime as a club. Why should we be on a perfect tip now?
Really don't get that, we've frankly been ****e most of my life and are better than that now. Is there room for improvement? Aye. Are we doing well despite 4 years in league one? Aye for me.
The rest is details, these lads are doing well but aren't perfect. Who is on here? I'm not, I'm typing this pish rather than earning money or telling my missus I love her.

Just my opinion, seriously, not sure there's that much going wrong x

 

[Smug in Boots]

I've left this place alone since the derby as loads on at work and can't be chewed with moaning and bickering sometimes. To be clear I get to maybe 4 games a season so those that express their views strongly probably have more right than me, all I'm saying is, I can't be arsed with it.
My view doesn't change. We're well run, it'd be nice to have a couple of more quality players, I can't fault the lads effort and some even have some skill! Anyway, not sure where any upset is coming from really given we have hardly bordered perfection in my lifetime as a club. Why should we be on a perfect tip now?
Really don't get that, we've frankly been ****e most of my life and are better than that now. Is there room for improvement? Aye. Are we doing well despite 4 years in league one? Aye for me.
The rest is details, these lads are doing well but aren't perfect. Who is on here? I'm not, I'm typing this pish rather than earning money or telling my missus I love her.

Just my opinion, seriously, not sure there's that much going wrong x

Well said mate.

 

[dred]

Sadly there are those who believe their 'KLD out' campaign is gaining momentum ...

... not right in the head imo, absolutely no idea who they want instead.

Do these idiots really the best way to attract a new owner is to hound out the existing one, ffs man

Social media again.
Most of the fans I know don't even know the campaign exists, and they are not all in my age group .
Maybe it's a case of empty vessels making most noise.
A dangerous thing.

 

[Prehab26]

Personally think his a really tough one. I made my feelings known as have others. On reflection, I should have worded things better in the build up to the game. Didn't come across great at times.

I do think the fume is because it's the derby for most and therefore it's all been at a higher temperate. The club absolutely appear to have made multiple mistakes in the weeks leading up to the game and this has changed the tone significantly. Won't go over them again for obvious reasons but I do believe that's why we are in a state of heightened rage at the moment.

Yes, social media brings this to light quicker however, people must forget it's also the number one fan engagement and news method available to the club and if used correctly, at the right time, it increases positivity and fam experience, increasing the chances of future generations taking an interest.

I said it would be a big week or two when things started to unfold and I had a feeling it would just continue. People want us to be better off the pitch specifically.

Let's hope that the issues in and around the Derby fixture are a catalyst for real change.

 

[Chunksafc]

Here's a question then, does the same apply to the criticism of the players? Some of the online comments about players are way above and beyond and can be constant no matter what some of them do.

Isn't that just as bad as the negative comments about the owners?

 

[Smug in Boots]

Here's a question then, does the same apply to the criticism of the players? Some of the online comments about players are way above and beyond and can be constant no matter what some of them do.

Isn't that just as bad as the negative comments about the owners?

The players know that part of the deal is to be judged although some comments are ludicrous and clearly grudge based.

The owner has been accused of criminality, betrayal, 'milking the club', using his pocket money to use the club as a plaything, failing to invest, etc etc etc. We can see what the players are doing so can make an 'informed judgement' but people condemn the owners with very little idea of what's actually going on at the club. Everyone seems to be an investigative journalist and top accountant, rolled into one, these days. I noticed people attacking Grumpy Old Man (RTG), the other day, because he mentioned that their claims are incorrect.

A classic case of 'don't confuse me with the facts, I have a pitchfork and I know how to use it'.

 

[The Norton Cat]

Here's a question then, does the same apply to the criticism of the players? Some of the online comments about players are way above and beyond and can be constant no matter what some of them do.

Isn't that just as bad as the negative comments about the owners?

From the point of view of the player as an individual I think that will vary from person to person. Some might not read what's written on social media, some might have the kind of character that is not affected by criticism of that kind. Others might be more susceptible to being affected by it.

In terms of how online criticism can influence the overall attitude of the fanbase towards a particular player, I think it works like any other subject. Constant negativity about a particular player can lead to them being regarded negatively in general. It's always happened, some players will become popular and some won't and its not always consistent with their ability, but social media can exacerbate that.

I suppose the point I'm trying to make is that for any positive aspects it has, social media has some very socially detrimental ones. It's much easier now for extreme opinions to be disseminated and that applies just as much to football as it does to any other subject.

 

[The Professor]

I've dithered around for days about whether I should post my opinion or not. Then I faffed around thinking whether to put it on the 'ambition' thread or another. I didn't want to derail them, hence this.

I've had a look around social media, etc and was finally pushed into posting by reading the 'Quinn's Bar' thread on RTG.

I totally understand all the frustration, anger, etc, regarding our progress, the coach situation, BCB, etc ...

... but surely there comes a point whereby we're just attacking ourselves and falling out.

We all really know, whether we like it or not, that KLD, KS, MB aren't going to be forced out by the relentless bile and hatred. So, imo, all it does is distract from the next game and the rest of the season.
We know, from O'Nien's Twitter posts, that the players read what we post and it has to be demoralising imo.

I'm probably a bit too 'rose tinted' from some people but I grew up supporting the club when we'd defend it against any attacks and have our backs to the wall even when it all looked lost. It now looks like we're fighting against the club, and each other, to the point where other club's supporters are commenting on the infighting and laughing it up at our expense.

The club f*cked up, they've apologised and will hopefully speed up the improvements ...

... we're still in with a chance of the play-offs, we've all expressed our anger/disappointment//etc, so can't we now concentrate on the football, the Ipswich game and the transfer window.

Just a thought, shoot me down if I'm out of order.

Haway man @Smug in Boots yer cant be playing this game man....fancy creating a post to gain 50+ likes....how some of us meant to catch up with this now

Totally right mate...were in a decent position in the league, obviously top 2 has gone, but it appears were actively after additions with what appears to be a flex in 'the model'.....not happy with certain parts in truth for me only the BCB being open & BCB decoration.

Fans moving i dont see how there was a choice, someone would be moving, same as if there had been a replay mags would be moving. Best comment in the seat move was talking with out mutual friend on way to Rotherham on train...my mate said ...i didnt hear people twist last year in cup against Mansfield as only the east stand was open

Whats done is done, i hope the club learn from & things like ticket office need to be accelerated

However RIGHT NOW people have the choice to moan like bitches (no offence meant to any bitches) or get on with it.....if people choose the moaning route it comes with a warning of its far from helpful, we have seen what this club can achieve when up against it...when were all behind & pulling in the right direction.....lets get behind the club & see how far we can get with a promotion challenge

Stuff you have mentioned is exactly why i dont do social media, never have, here is as far as i get, i dont get it, there are to many people just want to argue, have go, call each other xyz....then physically see each other....'alright mate not seen you for ages' wtf is that about....know others have mentioned coming off social media, out of lads drink with most are on, about half dozen arnt...they post on social media about arranging nights out....then forward that via text to the old fashioned ones... although not old ones

You see all this pole for this pole for that....if anyone wants to create a pole this is the one for me:

Are you a winging fxcker?
Are you a negative fxcker?
Do you want KLD out?
Are you a season ticket holder?
If not do you go to any games?

Seriously no owner is perfect....who do people think is going to buy club if KLD was forced out. Someone like the prince who owns Sheff Utd? A prime minister like City had previously? Rich yanks like Birmingham, get Rooney in? Countless owners throwing all have at it like Wigan? Russia like Everton, spend some proper money to improve? Yank like Chelsea, Dreamland spending billion plus on players?

It would appear though that progress can be made by selling your sole to murderers/terrorists..... shouting & waling, what do they want....or like children in a tantrum....they dont know when asked.....'just just better than this'

Right now for me....were progressing in right route playing side, awful lot to do in background.....BUT i never want to revisit the last PL years through to KLDs arrival at the club

ONLY real choice is to KTF.....& Our chances are better than they have been in a long long time in heading toward a stable period

 

[Monkey69]

The players know that part of the deal is to be judged although some comments are ludicrous and clearly grudge based.

The owner has been accused of criminality, betrayal, 'milking the club', using his pocket money to use the club as a plaything, failing to invest, etc etc etc. We can see what the players are doing so can make an 'informed judgement' but people condemn the owners with very little idea of what's actually going on at the club. Everyone seems to be an investigative journalist and top accountant, rolled into one, these days. I noticed people attacking Grumpy Old Man (RTG), the other day, because he mentioned that their claims are incorrect.

A classic case of 'don't confuse me with the facts, I have a pitchfork and I know how to use it'.

I suppose that people will always want to believe what they choose despite what is being said. EG Sunderland are a selling club that is how the model works. The reality is KS has stated on more than 1 occasion that we are not a selling club and that we are a club looking to build for the future and he also has stated that we have no need to sell players but will do business if it is right for both parties IE player and club.
Even now we have guys on here saying things like Clark will be sold if the club need the money and I wouldn't let him go even if he wanted to go when the truth is that decision is more of a mutual agreement if it was to happen but people continually think the decisions are solely the clubs and they hold all the cards but in this day and age that is not wholly true any more.

 

[Smug in Boots]

I suppose that people will always want to believe what they choose despite what is being said. EG Sunderland are a selling club that is how the model works. The reality is KS has stated on more than 1 occasion that we are not a selling club and that we are a club looking to build for the future and he also has stated that we have no need to sell players but will do business if it is right for both parties IE player and club.
Even now we have guys on here saying things like Clark will be sold if the club need the money and I wouldn't let him go even if he wanted to go when the truth is that decision is more of a mutual agreement if it was to happen but people continually think the decisions are solely the clubs and they hold all the cards but in this day and age that is not wholly true any more.

It's incredible when people rage at the club for not signing a particular player ...

... as if, with a choice of clubs, you can simply make a player bring his family to the far NE coast as if they're cattle.