Agitations.........

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tbh our passing game can frustrate me as well sometimes but as supporters we've got to see the bigger picture & regardless of whether we agree with team selections, tactics, etc we are top of the league. yes, couldn't agree more, let's get 100% behind the team regardless of what's happening on the pitch. 1-0 up or 1-0 down. the team needs everyone of us to shout, clap, cheer as loud as we can.
 
SAINTDON13 said:
Examples: 1: You are a lazy bast*rd: 2: You are a lazy black bast*rd: Which is worse? It is my point about labelling people. Still doesn't change the fact that the person concerned is lazy! No names, no pack drill.
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If I were to label someone a "lazy, black bast*rd": the "lazy" epithet would be opinion based on observation of work rate; the "bast*rd" would be an insult based on no evidence whatsoever as to his legitimacy: the most shocking, and potentially criminal observation ("black") would be base on self evident appearance! As such, the only FACT out of the three. Interesting....


Reminds me of a line from "Porridge" when the black character, McLaren? is abused verbally, and called a "Black Scottish bast*rd" Fletcher says, "Well you are a) *******, b) Caledonian and c) illegitimat, so he has a point. To which McLaren says, "Aye, Fletch, but it's the way he said it!"
 
that's missing the point a bit i think. the obviously offensive thing about calling someone a 'lazy black bastard' is that you're linking their race to a value judgement. there's simply no need to mention someone's race if you're accusing them of laziness, just as there'd be no need to mention someone's race if you were praising them! it's just not relevant. have you ever heard a football fan calling a player a 'lazy white bastard'?

the fact that it's only non-white players whose race gets brought into these sorts of insults is why people start talking about racism.

it goes without saying of course that the vast majority of saints fans get behind the players no matter what their race is, which is as it should be!
 
together as one said:
that's missing the point a bit i think. the obviously offensive thing about calling someone a 'lazy black bastard' is that you're linking their race to a value judgement. there's simply no need to mention someone's race if you're accusing them of laziness, just as there'd be no need to mention someone's race if you were praising them! it's just not relevant. have you ever heard a football fan calling a player a 'lazy white bastard'?

the fact that it's only non-white players whose race gets brought into these sorts of insults is why people start talking about racism.

it goes without saying of course that the vast majority of saints fans get behind the players no matter what their race is, which is as it should be!
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Granted. I admit to being pedantic and playing Devil's Advocate. I refer you to the final quote, "Aye, Fletch, but it's the way he said it!" Context!
 
together as one said:
that's missing the point a bit i think. the obviously offensive thing about calling someone a 'lazy black bastard' is that you're linking their race to a value judgement. there's simply no need to mention someone's race if you're accusing them of laziness, just as there'd be no need to mention someone's race if you were praising them! it's just not relevant. have you ever heard a football fan calling a player a 'lazy white bastard'?

the fact that it's only non-white players whose race gets brought into these sorts of insults is why people start talking about racism.

it goes without saying of course that the vast majority of saints fans get behind the players no matter what their race is, which is as it should be!
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Nope itis not only non-white players race that gets brought into it. Few people behind me call Barnard white trash etc. It's just white people see what other white people say as far more racist then when a black person etc says it.
 
ok, well i've never heard anyone refer to a white player's race in a derogatory way before but if you have, fair enough. it's still obviously much less common than people referring to the race of non-white players.

if people are quicker to jump on racism by white people than they are on racism by non-white people, that's because they're conscious of the long history of white people discriminating against non-white people. there isn't an equivalent history of non-white people discriminating against white people, so racial insults against white people are (rightly in my opinion) not usually considered to hold the same power to offend.
 
together as one said:
ok, well i've never heard anyone refer to a white player's race in a derogatory way before but if you have, fair enough. it's still obviously much less common than people referring to the race of non-white players.

if people are quicker to jump on racism by white people than they are on racism by non-white people, that's because they're conscious of the long history of white people discriminating against non-white people. there isn't an equivalent history of non-white people discriminating against white people, so racial insults against white people are (rightly in my opinion) not usually considered to hold the same power to offend.
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All racism should be thought of the same, no matter what colour or creed the person it is directed at.
 
yes all racism is bad. but:

1) racism against black people is much more common than racism against white people, especially at football grounds.
2) prejudice directed at a minority is more damaging than prejudice directed against the majority, because of the difference in power between those groups.
3) racism against black people has led to a lot of horrible things in the past. the same is not true of racism against white people.
 
Racists? How ridiculous. Just because people get on Guly's back you label them racist? Haha. I like Guly but it is quite clear he is the laziest out of the 11, but I can see past that to his qualities whereas some others cant. But racist!? Laughable. Just look at Tadanari Lee and the support he gets. Not to mention Stern John who was held in high regard. Jones, Walcott, Chamberlain?

I don't particularly like Dan Harding, think he has had his best days with saints. Does that mean I'm racist towards him too?
 
Saints Go Marching In said:
Racists? How ridiculous. Just because people get on Guly's back you label them racist? Haha. I like Guly but it is quite clear he is the laziest out of the 11, but I can see past that to his qualities whereas some others cant. But racist!? Laughable. Just look at Tadanari Lee and the support he gets. Not to mention Stern John who was held in high regard. Jones, Walcott, Chamberlain?

I don't particularly like Dan Harding, think he has had his best days with saints. Does that mean I'm racist towards him too?
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Not racist just obsessive.
 
Racism generally requires the intention to insult a person by expressing an honestly-held derogatory opinion about their race. It's all about context. That being said, I do agree that white people have less reason to be offended by racist abuse. I don't think I'm actually capable of being genuinely offended by race-based insults directed towards me.
 
together as one said:
yes all racism is bad. but:

1) racism against black people is much more common than racism against white people, especially at football grounds.
2) prejudice directed at a minority is more damaging than prejudice directed against the majority, because of the difference in power between those groups.
3) racism against black people has led to a lot of horrible things in the past. the same is not true of racism against white people.
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Racism against white people has led to alot of horrible things aswell.
In some areas of the uk white people are the minority.
Tbh I don't see why any of your points would make any kind of racism worse then another. Racism is bad as a whole.
 
The trouble with Racialism and sexism (if there is such a word) Is the very fine line at times of when an innocent remark is turned into one of the above. Often this will happen simply because the person on the end of the innocent remark is particularly sensitive. I have been to many lectures during the 90's when the PC lobby had it's hey day. It was agreed that there were times when it was deemed an incorrect remark simply by the way it was said, rather than what was actually said. Others still maintained though that it was more likely to be deemed an incorrect remark if someone is more sensitive to that kind thing. The one thing all sides agreed...sometimes it is a fine line between either!!
 
Whilst I agree that some are oversensitive, it is only good manners not to persist if a term is upsetting to the person you are speaking to. Suarez claimed that the term he used was common in his country and not offensive...ok...but he then persisted in saying it deliberately when Evra got upset. That was bullying.
 
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