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Adam Johnson

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by TimPR78, Mar 3, 2016.

  1. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    Wats, I think the crime in this case was mainly the self confessed grooming. It wasn't an opportunist, spur of the moment snog and a grope in a nightclub. It was a campaign over a period of time by a privileged man in his late twenties to manipulate a 15 year old into having sex with him. The fact that it seems he failed is irrelevant. In that sense it was certainly a psychological attack. He asked her to delete their electronic conversations, he tried to cover his tracks. This was a calculated plan to exploit someone who was clearly gullible and vulnerable.

    I have no idea how long he should get, and don't really care, but this certainly isn't anything like two teenagers a year or two apart in age having a grapple.
     
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  2. Rangers Til I Die

    Rangers Til I Die Well-Known Member

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    Good post. He is.not.in the same league as Saville and Co unless at any stage she suggested they should stop whatever they were doing.
    The grooming aspect semi to have been very.important in this case and of course those texts,whatsapp etc are all.there for ever.
    I think the age does make a difference too. If he was 18 and once again.assuming consensually, I wonder if the law would take a different view? It's fair that the law should.require more responsibility from us as citizens as we age.
     
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  3. Rangers Til I Die

    Rangers Til I Die Well-Known Member

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    You beat me to it re the grooming. Apologies for typos due to phone and stubby fingers.
     
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  4. Bwood_Ranger

    Bwood_Ranger 2023 Funniest Poster

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    I agree it's not and it's a fair point that there was a sustained period of time of chatting her up, essentially. She probably was gullibe but I don't see her as being particularly vulnerable in this.
     
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  5. Chaz

    Chaz Well-Known Member

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    Vulnerable or not, she's still a child and still a victim. He admitted grooming her. At what point does this sympathy for a confessed predatory paedophile stop? He's guilty, she's not, so she does not deserve to have her reputation trashed - least of all on here.
     
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  6. Bwood_Ranger

    Bwood_Ranger 2023 Funniest Poster

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    You're going down the route of unnecessarily emotive language and exaggeration again. Nobody has sympathy for Johnson. I just think it's wrong to portray her as some helpless infant.
     
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  7. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    So will the courts now be clogged with 18 and 19 year old peadophiles who have been grooming their 15 year old girlfriends
     
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  8. Bwood_Ranger

    Bwood_Ranger 2023 Funniest Poster

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    I'd be a bit uneasy about that age gap with a 15-year-old. 16 & 15 is fine, even 17 & 15 but above that you're a genuine adult.
     
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  9. Chaz

    Chaz Well-Known Member

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    Unnecessary emotive language? Exaggeration? Tell me which word I've used isn't entirely accurate. The victim is a child. She's fifteen years old. He admitted grooming her over a considerable period of time, with the intent of sexual contact. He has been found guilty of said sexual contact. He knew all that time that she was a child. So predatory paedophile is entirely accurate. And all these efforts to minimise the seriousness of what he did by painting her as some randy teenager who carries some of the blame is pathetic.
     
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  10. Chaz

    Chaz Well-Known Member

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    Like it or not, an 18 year old who sleeps with a 15 year old is breaking the law. An 18 year old who has a 15 year old girlfriend but does NOT have sexual contact with them until they reach 16, may be considered to be grooming her, but the courts wouldn't really be interested if no inappropriate contact took place.

    That's very different to this case, however, and really has no bearing on the serious nature of Johnson's actions, or the effect it will have had on his victim.
     
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  11. qprted

    qprted Poet Laureate

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    yeah hes thrown his whole life away and will no doubt feel suicidal every single day of his life
     
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  12. Bwood_Ranger

    Bwood_Ranger 2023 Funniest Poster

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    I think I'm going to have to start banging my head against the wall.

    No one is minimising the seriousness of a 28 year old bloke doing stuff with a 15 year old. Of course she was technically a child but it would be wrong to assume, as someone do that age, she is a "child" in the way we'd traditionally define one.

    When I was 15 I was pretty randy all the time. If a wealthy 28 year old woman had come on to me, I'd have known it was wrong but would have gone for it willingly. No one was duped here.
     
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  13. GoldhawkRoad

    GoldhawkRoad Well-Known Member

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    Good post, Stan. I do believe, however, that the length of sentence is critical here - because when dealing with one of these cases involving a 15 year old girl, as opposed to a girl up to 14 years old, the 15 year old is only months away from being 16, the legal age from consent. What if the girl in question had been 15 years and 11 months? The law is still broken, but clearly the sentence cannot be the same as grooming a girl of 13 or 14 or less.

    On the victim question, the difficulty is that 15 year old girls are different. Sure, some would be feel misled and abused by Johnson. But there are others that would see it as a conquest. My first girlfriend was 15 (like me), and was not a virgin (unlike me). She had been seduced on one night by a 19 year old, yet there was nothing about her that was a victim...believe me.
     
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  14. Chaz

    Chaz Well-Known Member

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    And if that had happened, the woman would have been guilty of child sexual assault.

    You keep insisting that she clearly played her part in this, and as such he shouldn't be judged as harshly as others. If that's not shifting blame, I don't know what is. Whatever her actions, she is a child, and as such the victim. You seem very keen to paint her as otherwise for some unknown reason. That's my problem with your stance. You appear to be saying that 'oh, she's fifteen and clearly a willing participant, so why are people being so hard on Johnson' and then you say you're not 'minimising the seriousness' of his crime. You can't have it both ways - either he's the predatory paedophile that the courts and his own admission have shown him to be, or he's a poor unfortunate little multi-millionaire who got caught in a honey-trap by a wanton fifteen year old.

    Which one are you saying? Because I'm getting confused with the mixture of empathy, accusations and leniency that you seem to be displaying here.
     
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  15. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    I think the age of the girl, whether she was (initially) 'up for it' or not, or her general character or the supposed characters of 15 year old girls in general, are irrelevant in this case, as are our own personal histories. What Johnson did was classic, serious, paedophile behaviour. The girl should take no responsibility or blame for that, Johnson should take it all.
     
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  16. Chaz

    Chaz Well-Known Member

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    Agree entirely. Makes a change with us, I know :) but agree 100%

    I should be so eloquent...
     
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  17. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    Worryingly Chaz I have found it difficult to argue with a number of your recent posts. Getting soft in my old age. Might be best just to recognise that Wats has a different perspective in this case though.
     
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  18. GoldhawkRoad

    GoldhawkRoad Well-Known Member

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    What you're saying is that if she was a day or week off her 16th birthday, that should not be taken into account by the court in sentencing (as opposed to determining criminal responsibilty) . Strongly disagree

    There's no question that the girl should take any blame - of course she should not. Whether she feels a victim or not depends on her nature, but of course that is not a matter for the court
     
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  19. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    Correct. Because this was not a case of casual, opportunistic sex, but a calculated grooming campaign. He was using his celebrity and the 'favours' he had done for her to extract 'favours' in return. In fact, had it happened with an 18 year old, or a 35 year old, it would be equally manipulative, pathetic and inadequate behaviour, just 'legal'.
     
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  20. Bwood_Ranger

    Bwood_Ranger 2023 Funniest Poster

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    Why does it have to be one of those polar opposites? My stance has been quite clear throughout- he has done something wrong and should be punished accordingly but it's wrong to label her as a helpless child as if she were younger and less mature than one is at 15. For the millionth time, I'm not shifting blame, blaming her, asking why people are blaming AJ, suggesting a honey trap or any of your other accusations, some seemingly made up.
     
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