2017 Eclipse Stakes

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Der Kaiser said:
Not sure about that, he was 10/1 and 20/1 for the Irish Champion and Arc last season, his overall profile shows hes beatable when not allowed to steal on sharp tracks, plus his run in Meydan first up and the vans late to Epsom thing. Wouldnt say 9/4 has been massively overpriced all things considered..
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Well it's all about opinions of course, but I'd say he won his last two races like an odds on fav should. I suppose the Meydan run impacted the Epsom price, but personally I tend to ignore Meydan form because, good or bad, it rarely translates back to Europe.

9/4 was a "how did I miss that" price for me in hindsight.
 
Archers Road said:
Well it's all about opinions of course, but I'd say he won his last two races like an odds on fav should. I suppose the Meydan run impacted the Epsom price, but personally I tend to ignore Meydan form because, good or bad, it rarely translates back to Europe.

9/4 was a "how did I miss that" price for me in hindsight.
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Well in hindsight of course, he was massively overpriced :emoticon-0102-bigsm

i was considering the situation pre event.
 
Der Kaiser said:
Well in hindsight of course, he was massively overpriced :emoticon-0102-bigsm

i was considering the situation pre event.
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To let him go off at 9/4 at Epsom was one thing - I said to you before the stalls opened that he was overpriced, but I didn't back him. However, following that performance, it's impossible to argue that he wasn't overpriced at Ascot.

The markets do keep getting Ballydoyle's horses wrong, but despite the supposed mountains of mug cash, they are as likely to go off overpriced as under. I wouldn't be put off backing one of theirs on the grounds of hype.

Not sure where any of that leaves Cliffs of Moher at around 2/1. Epsom Derby 2nd isn't looking like great form at the moment. But if he'd won that he'd be shorter, so 2/1 is probably fair, generous even, in an Eclipse that doesn't look exactly vintage.

Edit; if CoM is value at around 2/1, Barney Roy is even better value at 11/4.
 
There is a lot of bollocks being written on this thread, the worst being that Cliffs Of Moher is easy to back! He has shortened every week, in fact nearly every day since the first post.
Anyway...on at 8/1...win lose or draw that is a cracking piece of work. If he were that now you would all be taking a chunk.

Lest we forget, he beat Eminent in the Derby so should be shorter! Of course the price reflects the trainers but how many group one winners has Martyn Meade saddled?
 
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I've never heard a trainer as vocal about a horse who has won so little as Meade has been about Eminent. I guess it's genuine as he isn't used to handling quality sorts and is getting slightly carried away. Let the horse do the talking though, he's good but has to actually go win big races now and prove it.
 
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stick said:
...... Lest we forget, he beat Eminent in the Derby so should be shorter! Of course the price reflects the trainers but how many group one winners has Martyn Meade saddled?
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Not saying Eminent will beat COM stick but Eminent was "squeezed and not much room towards finish" and finished just 1l behind COM. Can't see there being much between them on Saturday yet one is twice the odds of the other (too short to back it to reverse the form though)
 
stick said:
There is a lot of bollocks being written on this thread, the worst being that Cliffs Of Moher is easy to back! He has shortened every week, in fact nearly every day since the first post.
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I think the point being made stick is that at the current odds the bookies are happy to lay him. You got a fantastic price but would you back him at today's odds?
 
Ron said:
There were 2 going 9/4 when I posted, and still are
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I think they need to update their site Ron as those prices are incorrect! Hills are now 7/4 and Betbright have the market down <ok> As I said in my original post, 2/1 is the biggest price currently available. He has shortened considerably this last week, so the bookies are certainly not taking him on at this time.

However I'd be confident you'll get better odds on everything Friday evening and may very well be 5/2 the field at some point.
 
stick said:
I dont need to! :emoticon-0102-bigsm
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Very true. Looks as though you could lay it off easily at 2/1 before it drifts. If it loses it's cost nothing and if it wins you still have a 6/1 winner. Great price
 
"Hampered soon after start, held up off the pace in rear, 16th straight, closing when not clear run entering final 2f, still plenty to do when not clear run carried left and switched right over 1f out, 7th and headway 1f out, strong run to lead near finish"

When you look at it like that, maybe Wings of Eagles wasn't so bad. With a clear run maybe he would have been an impressive 5l Derby winner, in a pretty fast time. We'll never know. Conversely, maybe the placed horses were flattered. We may get a better idea of that on Saturday
 
My idea of the 1-2-3 would be: Ulysses, Barney Roy, Desert Encounter.

Fully aware my eye may have read this one wrong and we'll be looking at a podium of Cliffs of Moher, Eminent, Taj Mahal <laugh>

Either way i'm off to Sandown tomorrow for the first time and can't wait, think this Eclipse is more intriguing than most just because the three year old's have been the source of so much debate
 
This from last week's Newmarket Gallops Report:

Great Work !!! Eminent - Martyn Meade
Freddy Meade's Equinity gadget told him that the Derby fourth was clocking 40.2mph approaching the five pole in a seven furlong workout on the Al Bahathri Polytrack with regular partner Solo Hunter. The Frankel colt looks to have benefited from missing Royal Ascot and will have one more spin on turf before his next assignment in the Group 1 Coral-Eclipse at Sandown.

For info, the Equinity gadget is a device that the horse wears which sends information on a horse's heart rate, respiratory rate, travelling speed, etc to an app. They're becoming more and more popular in Newmarket.
 
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Sounds like a brilliant tool. Presumably one can get an idea as to whether the effort being put in is well within the horse's capability and hence better able to assess how much more it could give in a hard race
 
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