2017 Eclipse Stakes

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Davidquinn said:
Crowley also on board now and he's got plenty to prove after being shunted off Eminent.
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Being fair to Martyn Meade and the owner of Eminent, he did say that they booked Sylvestre de Sousa for Saturday as they could not rely on the availability of Jim Crowley because of his retainer with Hamdan Al Maktoum, which could have meant Crowley having to go to Haydock. I am sure they would be happy to have his services at a future date.
 
QuarterMoonII said:
Being fair to Martyn Meade and the owner of Eminent, he did say that they booked Sylvestre de Sousa for Saturday as they could not rely on the availability of Jim Crowley because of his retainer with Hamdan Al Maktoum, which could have meant Crowley having to go to Haydock. I am sure they would be happy to have his services at a future date.
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Fair one, am sure it's all amicable, was just trying to convince myself that Ulysses is going to make my day on Saturday. All depends how much improvement there is left in Ulysses, eeking more out with each run but might need a fair old jump again to compete with Cliffs Of Moher and Barney Roy giving them 8lbs (then again this crop of 3 year olds are weak). The cover on Barney Roy is banking on the Guineas form being better than the Derby form, just got a hunch that will prove to be so over time (and Barney Roy has already got the better of Eminent once)
 
Where does this assertion that this classic generation are not as good as their elders come from? Admittedly I am not sure yet if they are a decent bunch but at the same time I don't think the older horses still in training are anything to rave about. Highland Reel over 10f and Ribchester over 8f are pretty decent but the rest of them...well most haven't made it back!
Until the two generations meet properly we won't know and that is what makes the Eclipse so interesting.
Only one 3yo took on the elders at Ascot and she certainly didn't let her generation down!

Highland Reel won with some authority at Ascot so Decorated Hero and Ulysses look to have it all to do. Eminent won't have improved from the Derby and the trainer isn't even sure Barney Roy will stay. Very happy with my bet and if I could get the price again I would getting the wheelbarrow wheel oiled!
 
My take on the 3 year old crop not being as good as their elders comes from the fact there is no standout, that they're all beating each other thus the form is muddled. It's a little unfair to assume they're all average when that's the case, but visually I just haven't been taken with them. I think Highland Reel is a great yardstick. He's a standout world class performer, proven over different distances in different continents. I don't think Cliffs Of Moher has anywhere near that scope, but you're right in saying all will be proven on Saturday! To me Ulysses getting within a couple of lengths of Highland Reel is far better form than anything Cliffs Of Moher has produced to this point. What's more I would be all over Jack Hobbs were there to be much rain between now and Saturday, but the forecast suggests not
 
Der Kaiser said:
Crowley is jocked off, SDS mount now.
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Another argument in an empty room?

Everybody read that De Sousa has got the ride because Crowley cannot guarantee availability this weekend or in the future. Not being on a big-name retainer, De Sousa is theoretically more available.

If they want to run the horse in a month’s time and De Sousa happens to be banned or injured, you are absolutely certain that, if they know that he is available, they will not ask champion jockey Crowley. Give the ride to Spencer. <laugh>
 
stick said:
Where does this assertion that this classic generation are not as good as their elders come from? Admittedly I am not sure yet if they are a decent bunch but at the same time I don't think the older horses still in training are anything to rave about. Highland Reel over 10f and Ribchester over 8f are pretty decent but the rest of them...well most haven't made it back!
Until the two generations meet properly we won't know and that is what makes the Eclipse so interesting.
Only one 3yo took on the elders at Ascot and she certainly didn't let her generation down!
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On evidence to date, what you actually mean is that most of the elders are not that great and the Classic generation are probably just as moderate. It should make for an exciting Eclipse.

Of the older horses to have raced, only Ribchester and Highland Reel have demonstrated top draw form (neither having yet matched last year’s best efforts) and we are taking it on trust at the moment that last season’s top three year old Almanzor has retained the ability he showed then.

I will assume that the three year old to which you refer is Lady Aurelia.
 
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The 20/1 on Lightning Spear looks a little big to me. It's hard to knock his form over a mile but he has always been just a little short of beating a bunch of very good milers. He has been tried over this trip once before but that was for his previous trainer and he has come on a hell of alot since then. Visually he has looked as though the step up from a mile would suit.

Having missed the prices on Cliffs of Moher I'm happy to leave him alone even though I think he's the best from the Derby. The Derby form seems to be working out quite well but those who have won since are those who had excuses at Epsom so I'll take a cautious view with it for the moment.
 
Looks like everyone is running then, the nothing special 3yos vs the nothing special older horses.

Head says 3yos will probably shade it, heart says Ulysses all the way.
 
Head and heart in unison for me on Ulysses, though the latter may be influencing the former a little. Not going to throw any more darts at it but Blond Me seems overpriced at 66/1. Found a formline that puts her not far off at all, will be fresher than most for this, balding yard still in form and having a great season
 
Final decs and draw later - low draw at sandown has been key this year, and think every race on the eclipse card last year was won by a horse drawn single figures, should help narrow some of these fields down
 
Here's a quiz quest for the Barney Roy fans (and even the non-Barney Roy fans for that matter). How many Group 1 over further than a mile have the Hannon's won in the UK since 1993??? I might even throw in a 'Barney Bonus' for the first correct answer.
 
I would say you are spot on Ron.

Amusing that Hannons interview yesterday discussed the possibility of a return to a mile for his next race if he fails to stay LOL. They will go a cracking gallop tomorrow and we all know about the Sandown finish!
The money for Jack Hobbs slightly bemuses me too. Barely a smidgen of rain since Ascot where the ground was the excuse WTF.
 
If Cracksman were in this race he would surely be one of the favs. Therefore, although I'm not a Permian fan, 20/1 looks massively overpriced (ignoring his Derby run)
 
2 if you include Italian G1s
Edit. Bugger, read the question Ronny boy <doh>
 
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