Ex-Manager Thread

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Who would you have as our next Manager

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    213
fran-MLs little camera said:
It isn't all Saints or all the manager....it's a symbiotic relationship. We provide a good opportunity for a player or manager to do his best.
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Absolutely, I just believe the symbiotic push was greater from our side for Ron than it was for Poch. I think he's a decent manager who was given a greater leg-up from the club than Poch needed. I honestly don't think he's much more than 'okay' though.
 
Saints Fan4Life said:
I genuinely don't think he was as big a draw as your making out.

Tadic was on our radar anyway, and Clasie said he'd have signed for us with or without Koeman. If Toby was that impressed with Koeman, he'd have signed for us permanently.
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I think Koeman said that he suggested players, but they had to be on the list. Luckily, we have info about a lot of players.
 
I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
It's splitting hairs, though. If you want to put it that way, then the club had enormous expectations, and it's to Koeman's credit that he matched them.

How many people really thought during the Meltdown of 2014 that Saints would beat their points total in 2015 and then beat THAT in 2016, qualifying for Europe twice in the process?

I don't like the way Koeman left us and I get the anger towards him there. And personally, I've always felt like switching up managers every 2-3 years is not a bad thing, for a number of reasons. Things just get stale and need to be shaken up every once in a while.

Still, I can't minimize what Koeman accomplished. There are many managers who couldn't have pulled us out of that situation as well as he did. Even if we accept that he doesn't have the tactical nous of Pochettino, or pooh-pooh his managerial skills altogether. His reputation still carried weight. I don't think we end up with Pelle, Tadic, Alderweireld and then later Clasie without him. And those guys were all pretty instrumental in our success.

IMO, Koeman was the person we needed in a moment of crisis. Even if he did it only for his own ends. Even if he is a lying, greedy jerk. I'll always like and respect Adkins more than RK but we wouldn't have done nearly as well with him.
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Well I suppose I did because I predicted 6th in the first year [7th] and 5th in the second year [6th]. And seeing as Saints want to be in Europe ASAP, I don't think they'd have been too happy with 8,9 or 10th. My opinion is guided by what the club's own ambitions are. They haven't been far wrong since 2009.
 
fran-MLs little camera said:
I think Koeman was better than okay, but was still learning about the league and the players. Poch, given the right players, is a more entertaining manager from the fans point of view, whereas Ron was good tactically (though a long way from perfect as he was learning on the job).
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They've paid the bucks for an absolutely world class manager though, and I think he's a lot closer to just 'okay' than he is to world class.
 
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I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
Ehh... you have to consider the likely sources. They are people who work within the club, so you're getting that viewpoint.

I think the likes of K,Billy and Guan 2.0 are legitimate ITK's and they are in possession facts that we aren't. At the same time, they don't have ALL the facts, either. Just the ones someone is telling them.

If those guys say "These managers are on the short list" or "We've been looking at X player" I believe them. But when it comes to more complicated issues where they reporting on things laden with interpretations and opinions, there are always two (or more!) sides to any story.

For me personally, it doesn't matter because I don't really care that much about the moral issues. I just want the facts, not the hearsay.

But I think it's a massive step from "Club will announce a signing" to "Okay, here's exactly what's been going down over the last six months."
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No disagreement, though "here is what has happened at the club in the past week", as it was at the time, holds a fair bit of weight...there doesn't seem to be any denial of the fact that the board summoned him during the poor stretch, nor that they conveyed disapproval of a number of aspects of his managerial reign. Like you say, their perspective is that of someone at the club...and also someone 'leaking' with the knowledge of the club. Thus I doubt that he'd have suggested that Koeman was on the verge of being shown the door if the board was fully committed to keeping him.
 
Le Tissier's Laces said:
Good post, and I largely agree. But I think RK benefitted (way more than Poch) hugely from the way the club is run and good coaches around him. I may be completely wrong, of course, but we shall see.
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Poch seemed to be very hands on. Whereas RK was more "professional" in the sense that I think he saw his job as to do the press conferences, coach the matches and run practices, and let others worry about the long-term plans, academy, etc. Maybe because that's the way RK is, but also maybe because RK never saw us as a long-term option and so only cared about his immediate job tasks and putting in a couple good seasons.

So in that respect yeah, I think MP (along with Cortese) really put their stamp on the club-- which in some ways worked to our detriment because it destabilized us much more when they left-- whereas RK just kept his bit running smoothly.

I think Koeman is a bad fit for Everton, honestly. He's not the guy I'd want to hand the keys of the kingdom to. But he was a good fit for us in our particular situation in 2014, partly because he didn't care and therefore didn't cause that much disruption to the core of the front office/admin staff (Reed, Krueger, Black Box, scouts, etc.) who we mostly did retain.

I think the time will come pretty soon when it's time for Reed and Krueger to go, honestly. Maybe another year. You need constant turnover IMO, to keep things fresh. You just can't have everyone leaving at once, or completely change direction on a dime. Slow evolution and a few changes each and every season...
 
I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
Poch seemed to be very hands on. Whereas RK was more "professional" in the sense that I think he saw his job as to do the press conferences, coach the matches and run practices, and let others worry about the long-term plans, academy, etc. Maybe because that's the way RK is, but also maybe because RK never saw us as a long-term option and so only cared about his immediate job tasks and putting in a couple good seasons.

So in that respect yeah, I think MP (along with Cortese) really put their stamp on the club-- which in some ways worked to our detriment because it destabilized us much more when they left-- whereas RK just kept his bit running smoothly.

I think Koeman is a bad fit for Everton, honestly. He's not the guy I'd want to hand the keys of the kingdom to. But he was a good fit for us in our particular situation in 2014, partly because he didn't care and therefore didn't cause that much disruption to the core of the front office/admin staff (Reed, Krueger, Black Box, scouts, etc.) who we mostly did retain.

I think the time will come pretty soon when it's time for Reed and Krueger to go, honestly. Maybe another year. You need constant turnover IMO, to keep things fresh. You just can't have everyone leaving at once, or completely change direction on a dime. Slow evolution and a few changes each and every season...
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Agreed with everything up until the last paragraph, where you seem to have completely lost the plot!
 
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Schad said:
No disagreement, though "here is what has happened at the club in the past week", as it was at the time, holds a fair bit of weight...there doesn't seem to be any denial of the fact that the board summoned him during the poor stretch, nor that they conveyed disapproval of a number of aspects of his managerial reign. Like you say, their perspective is that of someone at the club...and also someone 'leaking' with the knowledge of the club. Thus I doubt that he'd have suggested that Koeman was on the verge of being shown the door if the board was fully committed to keeping him.
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Yeah. I believe all that stuff happened. For one thing because it's just common sense. I mean, we lost like a zillion games in a row so what kind of management wouldn't have a meeting over it.

And just like the supporters, or really any group in a crisis situation, there were probably some who felt we needed to not panic and keep a steady hand, and those that thought we needed a change ASAP. I don't know how exactly close he came to being sacked, but probably too close for comfort from his standpoint certainly.
 
Tobes said:
<laugh>

He got you to within 3 points of the CL places, and delivered your best finish in the top flight for over 30 years, and yet now he's a hoofball merchant who's side 'collapsed' in the winter. ****ing lol
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We won one game in ten between December and January. So yeah, we collapsed. People were calling for Koeman's head, but the board gave him time to turn it round, and their trust was rewarded by a late surge that took us through to May. Whether your massively ambitious club will be similarly patient, we'll have to wait and see.

Not that anyone on here really gives a toss about Everton now, so how about you hop it back to your own board?
 
Le Tissier's Laces said:
Agreed with everything up until the last paragraph, where you seem to have completely lost the plot!
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Nah. We'll see though.

I'm not suggesting that Reed or Krueger have done a poor job at all. People and organizations always look for new challenges and eventually one era ends and another begins.

It's a team thing. Sometimes there's nothing wrong with any of the people involved but that spark of whatever makes them special goes out. You stay in a management job too long, you get maybe a little complacent. Or you get less effective because people are tired of hearing the same **** from you for too many years.

They can and hopefully will leave on good terms, and both sides will be better off.
 
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