Manager Rumours

sheffordqpr said:

Assume whatever you like. Have you even thought that Les' comments may also be deemed 'racist'? No? I thought not.


And in typical fashion for your type, you then feel the need to attack me on a personal basis. That says more about you than I could possibly ever do.

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Well actually instead of answering questions too me for me. I can instead answer that yes I have felt that Les is guilty of racism in his quest for the Rooney Rule.

In appointing Ramsey he has actually done more harm for the cause he feels so strongly about. Ramsey should have instead sought to work his way up from lower leagues like Curle and JFH. By jumping further on the back of positive discrimination and in the face of more qualified white coaches he has been counter-productive to a legitimate cause that cannot and should not change overnight. Two wrongs don’t make a right and all that.

Unsurprising to me that instead of taking the opportunity to counter points raised in my original posts that you took issue with you have instead made a generalised defensive and offensive statement towards me. So I apologise for and retract statements you felt were personal to you and ask that you instead raise rational and counter points against specific points you took issue with in my original posts.

I am keen that you don’t hide behind generalised non-comital statements as it cheapens and essentially destroys your own view point

If you cant raise any counter arguments against the specific statements i've made I will surely rightly assume that you cant do this because these points dont exist beyond your inherent and entrenched pre-determined politically correct opinons

Before we start throwing stuff around about racism, it may be that Sir Les felt that, all things being equal, he liked the idea of promoting a black manager, and TF bought into that, and I don't have a particular problem if they believed he had the talent to do the job (I'm not sure he ever showed it, and he certainly didn't have the experience). Anyway, we move on, and my own problem is if a racial bias is pursued by QPR management over other better candidates of whatever colour now.

Any evidence of this will be circumstantial, and it's too early to say there is some, because we don't know which newspaper reports to believe (if any). We just have to watch

GoldhawkRd said:

Before we start throwing stuff around about racism, it may be that Sir Les felt that, all things being equal, he liked the idea of promoting a black manager, and TF bought into that, and I don't have a particular problem if they believed he had the talent to do the job (I'm not sure he ever showed it, and he certainly didn't have the experience). Anyway, we move on, and my own problem is if a racial bias is pursued by QPR management over other better candidates of whatever colour now.

Any evidence of this will be circumstantial, and it's too early to say there is some, because we don't know which newspaper reports to believe (if any). We just have to watch

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Nothing wrong with any of that in principle but problem is he got a job he wasn’t qualified for in February and then after a failed audition and prolonged and serious under performance he was then handed the job on the full time basis in the face of better alternatives and then proceeded to **** it up while the prime alternative has gone on to continue to excel.

Leaving Les looking like a prejudiced idiot

Do we know for certain Powell was interviewed? beyond a newspaper story, which to me is not confirmation.

Peter Damage said:

Nothing wrong with any of that in principle but problem is he got a job he wasn’t qualified for in February and then after a failed audition and prolonged and serious under performance he was then handed the job on the full time basis in the face of better alternatives and then proceeded to **** it up while the prime alternative has gone on to continue to excel.

Leaving Les looking like a prejudiced idiot

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Yes, I've said before Ramsey's appointment was rash - even without hindsight, it looked an odd fit and doesn't reflect well on Les on a "D of F competency" test.

Les is new to the role. He must keep the field wide open for Ramsey's replacement. If he takes Hasslebainks (after Hass has failed to get Burton promoted) and that doesn't work out, both Hass and Les will be toast from the fans perspective

If we did indeed interview Chris Powell then all it does for me is underline the lack of ambition from those upstairs.

So nothing new on here then. All I've learned in the last 5 minutes is that:

We may give Warnock the job till the end of the season.
We may appoint JFH. But until very recently, we may not have bothered to seek permission from Burton to approach him
Peter Damage thinks that Ramsay is useless.
Peter Damage thinks that Les Ferdinand is a racist
Peter Damage says we should have appointed Warburton/Weir.
Chris Powell may have/probably has been interviewed.
Chris Powell is useless
The journos continue to link us with every unemployed manager.

To my knowledge we have not had an international break this week

I'll come back next week.

Peter Damage said:

Nothing wrong with any of that in principle but problem is he got a job he wasn’t qualified for in February and then after a failed audition and prolonged and serious under performance he was then handed the job on the full time basis in the face of better alternatives and then proceeded to **** it up while the prime alternative has gone on to continue to excel.

Leaving Les looking like a prejudiced idiot

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You were right about Ramsey move on Mr Peter

Peter Damage said:

Nothing wrong with any of that in principle but problem is he got a job he wasn’t qualified for in February and then after a failed audition and prolonged and serious under performance he was then handed the job on the full time basis in the face of better alternatives and then proceeded to **** it up while the prime alternative has gone on to continue to excel.

Leaving Les looking like a prejudiced idiot

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All this continueing cr*p is not only boring and mostly bollox, but it's utter repetitiveness gotta make me wonder why, especially when you now accuse Les of racism. I remember Harry and Hughes getting a lot of stick, but not post after post for weeks after they went.

Ramsey and Les's work have given us the kind of good youngish and promising players we all been wanting,, but not getting much of for years. Hall, Luongo, JET, Cheri, plus possibly some of the others they brought in, could give us a good core of players going forward. Ramsey seemed to improve many of the players as well. Phillips is now not just good on the right as he was pre-Ramsey, he's now done well in a number of games playing on the left, and did well apart from scoring as striker last week. Hall has improved a lot almost game by game. Doughty looked more and more like he could do a job when he got the chance.

TF has made another mistake all right - he sacked Ramsey and not Les. If he now keeps Les in his position and appoints another Head Coach of the type we are rumoured to be getting, he'll have made that mistake worse- these people are no better Coaches than Ramsey. If he sacks Les and persuades Colin, or Pearson to take over the whole show, perhaps he'll be getting closer to the best solution, the one with no DOF. But Ramsey would still be a good coach for this kind of Manager to have working with the players, sacking him wasn't the way to go about that.

Peter Damage said:

Instead of getting all sensitive and Guardian comments section maybe you should both acknowledge the elephant in the room

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You should have stopped at the fact Ferdinand and Ramsey had worked together before at Spurs and were mates, and your inference that this was the reason Ferdinand supported the choice of Ramsey. We know they are both black men, but do you truly think that their skin colour was a factor? If you were hiring someone (and I'm assuming here you are a white Causcasian sort of chap) would you have a preference for a white person over a black person? I'm sure the answer is "No". So why would Ferdinand be any different?

Your diatribe about Ramsey is old news. It's factual about the results and league positions, but just your personal opinion in deciding what it all means and why. I choose not to discuss it.

If you're looking for an elephant in the room I know you'll find one if you look hard enough. To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Watching Derby play this evening it's a shame we didn't do more to secure the services of Paul Clement

Hoops Eternal said:

Watching Derby play this evening it's a shame we didn't do more to secure the services of Paul Clement

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Oh for a dream manager!



and Jacob Butterfield (£4 million on a 4 year deal)

Derby County moved to the top of the Championship as two first-half goals from Jacob Butterfield saw off previous leaders Hull City at the KC Stadium.

Oh for a dream manager!

Hoops Eternal said:

Watching Derby play this evening it's a shame we didn't do more to secure the services of Paul Clement

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Now there's the man we should of got in the first place instead of Ramsey.A manager with a philosophy on how to play,a knowledge of which players to bring in and where to play them,and a tactical nous our legion of buffoons could only dream of.The real reason we didn't try harder to get him is simple,he was too expensive and dear old Chris wasn't ! As ever we weren't looking long term,a quick fix was available at a cheap rate and we took it.However nothing got fixed,it remained broken,and when at the end of this season Derby are sitting in the Premiership and all it's millions,and we're still in the Championship(if we're lucky),will we still deem that he was too expensive?Anyway,as things stand,i'm afraid to say it's looking like it's going to be JFH.There hasn't been a penny for anyone else in the past 3 days,and it's beginning to look like he's the man Sir Leslie Of Duffington wants!So just like before,we are going to overlook better qualified men for the job,Rowett(whose team JFH took over),Pearson(not a person I like,but a manager with grit and experience),Rodgers and Moyes to name a few.The reason why we probably won't get any of the above,simple,too expensive,so here we go again! If we give the job to JFH,i truly hope he succeeds and I will be 100% behind him,unfortunately I can't help but feel that he isn't the right man,and another massive opportunity would of been passed up!

As I've said previously, TF is the problem. He is a very lucky businessman who got into airlines at just the right time, copied Stelios' business model and made his millions. His 'development' of Air Asia is beginning to look dicey now and every other business he's ventured into has been a disaster.

I have no confidence whatsoever that the right appointment for this particular time will be made, even though it's sitting right in front of him. Warnock will steady things and get results even if it's too late to seriously challenge for automatic promotion, he's a proven success in this division. JFH is a big gamble and probably being chosen for his knowledge of lower league players which is probably our shop window from now on.

Without getting involved in the racial overtones, all the 'positive' appointments the club are making, whether with intention or not, are proving to be poor decisions. In football it has to be the best person for the job, and in our current circumstances that has to be Warnock, preferably without Sir Les interfering...

Peter Damage said:

Les won't be happy but that's a good thing.

The most ridiculous and immediately obvious wrong decision in my lifetime supporting Rangers was giving Ramsey the job over Warburton and Weir.

That was based on Les picking a black mate. For that Les should be cleared out the club pronto.

He's not to be trusted as Chris Powell getting an interview proves

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Peter ...that is a racist comment based on nothing more than a paper report that we had contacted Chris Powell.
Chris Ramsey and Les had been mates at Spurs, and the fact that you used the "black" connection rather than the "Spurs" makes me think that the remark was a racist comment on your part.

There is no place for such remarks on our board, and if you go down this route again we will have no choice with our actions

After reading all the latest comments I do think LF is the problem and has no real reason or experience to be in that role. Nothing has improved since he's been there and he's likely to put off good managers. He should have gone when CR went. He will continue to screw things up and will eventually go after its all too late - same as CR.

qprbeth said:

Peter ...that is a racist comment based on nothing more than a paper report that we had contacted Chris Powell.
Chris Ramsey and Les had been mates at Spurs, and the fact that you used the "black" connection rather than the "Spurs" makes me think that the remark was a racist comment on your part.

There is no place for such remarks on our board, and if you go down this route again we
will have no choice with our actions

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Beth I didn't use the 'black' rather than the Spurs. The 'mate' comment was reference to that.

I talked about both but have in the posts that followed defend and sustained that specific point

I am only accusing Les of the kind of “covert racism" that he accused other chairman of in the interview quoted with Sky in my original post.

I have supported my opinions. You cannot deny that. Considering the CV of Warburton vs Ramsey and now as an example Powell vs Rowett and paired with direct quotes from Les I think it's completely fair to raise these questions

Unreasonably closing down considered questions about 'covert racism' is wrong. This was not a rant, it was a reasoned post. It's part of the problem with this society that for a generation discussions of race are shut down.

If Les can talk about "covert racism" without anyone worrying then same should go here. It's a relevant topic to discuss especially as it influences the appointment of our manager

The only points raised against me was not to talk about it. No one has been capable of debating against it being at least one part of Les' thought process. So surely that only legitimises my point

Peter...what my point was, that you have no idea what is going on in Les' mind...and you base your assumptions on a case of one.

Powell is paper speculation, you do not know (and nor do I in fairness), that Powell was suggested and Les said, "no I do not want a failed manager". You do not know (and nor do I) that Warburton didn't turn us down. We have no idea what is going on at all!
The only fact we know is that Ramsey was appointed (from within (like Gary Monk was) , after a couple of improved team performances. We thought he would be either a caretaker until the summer, or as someone to build a future slowly(but that goal post changed thanks to TF).

You have based your whole argument of "covert racism" on a case of one appointment.
I would level against the club a completely different claim of "covert laziness and cheapness" on the same appointment.

Just for the record....I abhor positive discrimination, and as a woman in a VERY male dominated field, I have reason to have seen this in action...
I have seen inferior women promoted in preference to men...I have seen them crash and burn...but I have also seen many women far more able than the men they work under be unable to get promoted. The Rooney judgment, leads to problems ..........................but so do people who shout "covert racism" without any real evidence