Match Day Thread Hull City v Southampton

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You know what? Sack him then. Then six months later there'll be another issue and then the same cries and around and around we go.

I'm so tired of this moaning, I can see why Rosenior effectively told some fans to get a grip.

We aren't a £100m squad. We aren't, by any metric, a good bet for promotion. Most people said on here at the start of the season that we'd be in the top half and that would represent progress. We haven't been out of the top half yet all season. I said I think we'll be in with a shout for the top six and if we tighten up and play like we did today, we will be around that area. We're not going to get relegated, so why am I seeing the same sort of attitudes and posts I was seeing when we were getting battered 8-0 by Wigan before we were relegated?

It goes without saying that promotion is lovely, we've had one recently, albeit from a division we shouldn't have allowed ourselves to drop into anyway but that's another story. But I get the feeling that a lot of people's expectations marry up with that of the owners, who themselves speak about us having a top six budget and wanting to be in the top flight etc. We get all starry eyed as billionaires start investing and subconciously we start to think we're better than we are.

LR hit the nail on the head in his post match; half our team are kids. The likes of Delap, Philogene, Greaves, Morton, Connolly and Allahyar, they're all young players - 10 of the lads that played today were under 25. This lot have had a quarter of a season together and lost three games, they're only going to get better the more they play. You can see the improvement from last season, just watch any of our games under Rosenior from last year to this one.

You have to be patient. There isn't a magic fix or a special thing we can do as fans, we have to watch it game by game. We are adding to the quality of the squad over time and we have lads like Philogene, Seri and Tufan who are a level above; if we bring in a couple of players like that every window then we're going to go up sooner or later. If we finish 8th this season, I imagine everybody will be up in arms that we didn't get in the playoffs and LR is at fault for "all the draws".

Sacking managers isn't something we want to start doing, we've had two and a half seasons under Acun and we've had three different managers. It didn't work for Watford, who have spent miles more than we have, it certainly didn't work for Wednesday, it didn't work for Cardiff and it won't work for us. The key is to make long term progress. If we don't finish top half this season by some distance, fine, LR goes, even he'll admit that wouldn't be good enough. But if we get a top ten finish, that tells me we're heading in the right direction with a squad of young, talented players, an owner that gives a **** and a manager who has embedded a playing style that the squad bought into.

We're not the big fish in this league anymore, we're also-rans at the moment, we're out of the spotlight and many would count that as a good thing. We've quietly gone about our transfer business and the likes of Delap and Philogene have made people sit up and take notice a bit. Teams aren't turning up and expecting to roll over us, we were toe to toe with Southampton today and the quality of their subs (Che Adams and Ryan Fraser?) were the difference. Not to say ours aren't quality but they didn't look match fit. Both looked like they needed an U21s game before this one.

Rooney's first home game is gonna have a big crowd drawn to St Andrews for a physical game, which is usually where we do well. We've seen a decent reaction to losses so far this season, I expect we'll see one Wednesday too. Not the time for easy outs or wild calls, because there isn't anybody better we could have at the moment, certainly anybody who would give as much of a **** as Rosey does.

Agreed, but we have a top 8 budget by all accounts, not top 6. Stands to reason there are 3 clubs on first year parachute payments, there are others on second year payments and others with bigger revenues and fanbases. I'd be surprised if we were top 6, butt we will be comfortably top ten, hence the expectation of top 10 or better surrounding this season.

I fear for rosenior if we lose touch with the top 10 this season, but I don't think we will.
 
I think we're so close to being a very good team at this level. We were excellent for large parts today against a promotion favourite and on the balance of chances probably should've won. We've got a young team and manager who are only going to improve as the season progresses, but could do without the overreaction from fans after every bad result.

I actually can't believe I come on here every week and see people calling for Liams head. We've improved ten fold during his tenor and whilst we're not the finished article there's not many I'd rather have in charge of this project
 
Shots don’t tell the whole story. We had the best goal mouth scramble in the second half, that probably didn’t register as a shot. A couple of times Vinagre got into the box and made the wrong choice - simple cut back both times was required. I’m sure we would have had a shot.

This is the story with us constantly. It's baffling. Over the years I've often felt we're a wasteful side in various ways but I've never known a team be like we are lately, where we repeatedly and consistently find ways not to get a shot off from excellent positions. I go into games saying that I hope we finally stop doing it and I leave games increasingly frustrated that we continue. It's straight up weird to be this bad at playing the relatively simple final ball time after time, when we're so good at passing our way up the pitch in the buildup.
 
This is the story with us constantly. It's baffling. Over the years I've often felt we're a wasteful side in various ways but I've never known a team be like we are lately, where we repeatedly and consistently find ways not to get a shot off from excellent positions. I go into games saying that I hope we finally stop doing it and I leave games increasingly frustrated that we continue. It's straight up weird to be this bad at playing the relatively simple final ball time after time, when we're so good at passing our way up the pitch in the buildup.

Usually I'd say the reason for that would be the slow build up, meaning that final ball has to be perfect due to all defenders being comfortably in position. Today we didn't have that problem what with the pace we were working it forward with - it was purely poor decision making on numerous counts, not spotting runners, not shooting in that moment when they should etc. Personally I'd chalk this one up to them trying to quickly get used to playing at that tempo, because we've just not been playing quite like that.
 
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You know what? Sack him then. Then six months later there'll be another issue and then the same cries and around and around we go.

I'm so tired of this moaning, I can see why Rosenior effectively told some fans to get a grip.

We aren't a £100m squad. We aren't, by any metric, a good bet for promotion. Most people said on here at the start of the season that we'd be in the top half and that would represent progress. We haven't been out of the top half yet all season. I said I think we'll be in with a shout for the top six and if we tighten up and play like we did today, we will be around that area. We're not going to get relegated, so why am I seeing the same sort of attitudes and posts I was seeing when we were getting battered 8-0 by Wigan before we were relegated?

It goes without saying that promotion is lovely, we've had one recently, albeit from a division we shouldn't have allowed ourselves to drop into anyway but that's another story. But I get the feeling that a lot of people's expectations marry up with that of the owners, who themselves speak about us having a top six budget and wanting to be in the top flight etc. We get all starry eyed as billionaires start investing and subconciously we start to think we're better than we are.

LR hit the nail on the head in his post match; half our team are kids. The likes of Delap, Philogene, Greaves, Morton, Connolly and Allahyar, they're all young players - 10 of the lads that played today were under 25. This lot have had a quarter of a season together and lost three games, they're only going to get better the more they play. You can see the improvement from last season, just watch any of our games under Rosenior from last year to this one.

You have to be patient. There isn't a magic fix or a special thing we can do as fans, we have to watch it game by game. We are adding to the quality of the squad over time and we have lads like Philogene, Seri and Tufan who are a level above; if we bring in a couple of players like that every window then we're going to go up sooner or later. If we finish 8th this season, I imagine everybody will be up in arms that we didn't get in the playoffs and LR is at fault for "all the draws".

Sacking managers isn't something we want to start doing, we've had two and a half seasons under Acun and we've had three different managers. It didn't work for Watford, who have spent miles more than we have, it certainly didn't work for Wednesday, it didn't work for Cardiff and it won't work for us. The key is to make long term progress. If we don't finish top half this season by some distance, fine, LR goes, even he'll admit that wouldn't be good enough. But if we get a top ten finish, that tells me we're heading in the right direction with a squad of young, talented players, an owner that gives a **** and a manager who has embedded a playing style that the squad bought into.

We're not the big fish in this league anymore, we're also-rans at the moment, we're out of the spotlight and many would count that as a good thing. We've quietly gone about our transfer business and the likes of Delap and Philogene have made people sit up and take notice a bit. Teams aren't turning up and expecting to roll over us, we were toe to toe with Southampton today and the quality of their subs (Che Adams and Ryan Fraser?) were the difference. Not to say ours aren't quality but they didn't look match fit. Both looked like they needed an U21s game before this one.

Rooney's first home game is gonna have a big crowd drawn to St Andrews for a physical game, which is usually where we do well. We've seen a decent reaction to losses so far this season, I expect we'll see one Wednesday too. Not the time for easy outs or wild calls, because there isn't anybody better we could have at the moment, certainly anybody who would give as much of a **** as Rosey does.

He signed every one of those players except Greaves and Allahyar though, mate. He had all summer to add some experienced players but he didn’t. Could’ve signed an experienced ball-winner but he didn’t. Instead he wanted Max Bird, another young player, and when that didn’t work out, signed Morton on loan.

This is Rosenior’s squad. He can’t complain about it.
 
He signed every one of those players except Greaves and Allahyar though, mate. He had all summer to add some experienced players but he didn’t. Could’ve signed an experienced ball-winner but he didn’t. Instead he wanted Max Bird, another young player, and when that didn’t work out, signed Morton on loan.

This is Rosenior’s squad. He can’t complain about it.

And he hasn't.
 
He signed every one of those players except Greaves and Allahyar though, mate. He had all summer to add some experienced players but he didn’t. Could’ve signed an experienced ball-winner but he didn’t. Instead he wanted Max Bird, another young player, and when that didn’t work out, signed Morton on loan.

This is Rosenior’s squad. He can’t complain about it.

He's a head coach. He isnt a general club manager. He has a head of recruitment and will likely be working to a development brief. As per Brighton and Brentford sustainability models, as I believe that's what the club ownership structure is aspiring towards.

I doubt recruitment policy will change significantly, regardless of head coach, nor will the possession based playing identity the owners wish to establish, as I believe they feel it is key to the clubs marketability abroad.

If they have to sack Rosenior, then they'll bring in someone with broadly the same playing philosophy and development remit.


Frankly, I just think it needs stability and a few more games before we can really judge.

We had 7 new signings in our starting 11, they had 3 in their entire squad..

There's no suggestion we shouldn't improve but it takes more than half a dozen games to reach full potential.

It's still early days for this group of players, and for Liam as a head coach too.
 
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It really isn't. Our performance today was exactly like our other recent games. Really good at everything up to the edge of the area, and then time and time again ridiculously wasteful in the area. I'm sick of talking about it and sick of seeing it. It's becoming an absolute farce how consistently we waste good positions without even getting a shot off. It's different players every time and they're all good players.

Only difference between today and other games is that Southampton were good enough to control the final part of the game, pen us in and eventually get a winner which had started to look more and more likely. But even if that hadn't been the case, 1-1 would still have been frustrating with the amount of opportunities we had. I can't imagine what the root cause of it is but we have to get on top of it because at the moment all our good play is just wasted week after week.
Probably down to these are good areas we get in. Often teams have plenty of players back because of how slow we get the ball forward so players have to make perfect decisions for us to score goals.

Also defensively we are ****e. Have been all season, being bailed out by the goalkeeper consistently papering over the cracks
 
Probably down to these are good areas we get in. Often teams have plenty of players back because of how slow we get the ball forward so players have to make perfect decisions for us to score goals.

Also defensively we are ****e. Have been all season, being bailed out by the goalkeeper consistently papering over the cracks

We always have plenty of players back, as with both of their goals today, but teams find gaps some of the time. We seem to be unable to make the final pass even when it's a 2 on 1 situation, or in the case of today we struggled to get a shot off when we basically had an open goal on two occasions. People want it to be about tactics, as it always has to be, but that doesn't explain it. If other teams were as inefficient from scoring positions against us as we are to them we'd have barely conceded a goal all season.
 
Nah, players can adapt with bookings. Coyle was worse and just got booked himself.

At least he managed to flick his hair out his eyes about 16 times.

The coyle substitution killed us.

Firstly, Coyle didn't get booked. Secondly, you are looking at it from hindsight. 99% of managers make that switch in the context of the game today. If he hadn't taken Christie off with a perfectly decent RB on the bench he would have been slaughtered. He's damned if he did and damned if he didn't.

I agree the subs offered nothing when coming on but I think not taking off some of the midfield to get fresh legs in was the biggest crime today
 
He signed every one of those players except Greaves and Allahyar though, mate. He had all summer to add some experienced players but he didn’t. Could’ve signed an experienced ball-winner but he didn’t. Instead he wanted Max Bird, another young player, and when that didn’t work out, signed Morton on loan.

This is Rosenior’s squad. He can’t complain about it.

Aye, you're right, it is his squad but I wasn't complaining about the age, I was using it to point out that these younger lads will make more mistakes than older lads, but they only learn by playing more so it's an annoyance we have to tolerate until they cut it out.
 
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I think we're so close to being a very good team at this level. We were excellent for large parts today against a promotion favourite and on the balance of chances probably should've won. We've got a young team and manager who are only going to improve as the season progresses, but could do without the overreaction from fans after every bad result.

I actually can't believe I come on here every week and see people calling for Liams head. We've improved ten fold during his tenor and whilst we're not the finished article there's not many I'd rather have in charge of this project
How the hell have we improved 10 fold, we’ve won one game at home against a team with still only 3 points, Liam has won 12 games out of 42 so far, he’s been here a year in a couple of weeks, being hard to beat,ok but 19 draws is not an improvement, it’s a mentality he has of do not lose, rather than go out and win.
 
He signed every one of those players except Greaves and Allahyar though, mate. He had all summer to add some experienced players but he didn’t. Could’ve signed an experienced ball-winner but he didn’t. Instead he wanted Max Bird, another young player, and when that didn’t work out, signed Morton on loan.

This is Rosenior’s squad. He can’t complain about it.
Seri, Coyle?
 
How the hell have we improved 10 fold, we’ve won one game at home against a team with still only 3 points, Liam has won 12 games out of 42 so far, he’s been here a year in a couple of weeks, being hard to beat,ok but 19 draws is not an improvement, it’s a mentality he has of do not lose, rather than go out and win.

I'm judging the football i'm watching rather than the results.
 
Firstly, Coyle didn't get booked. Secondly, you are looking at it from hindsight. 99% of managers make that switch in the context of the game today. If he hadn't taken Christie off with a perfectly decent RB on the bench he would have been slaughtered. He's damned if he did and damned if he didn't.

I agree the subs offered nothing when coming on but I think not taking off some of the midfield to get fresh legs in was the biggest crime today
Coyle did get booked
I know it says he didnt on the BBC website but the ref clearly showed him a yellow card for the kick on the opponents leg
 
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You know what? Sack him then. Then six months later there'll be another issue and then the same cries and around and around we go.

I'm so tired of this moaning, I can see why Rosenior effectively told some fans to get a grip.

We aren't a £100m squad. We aren't, by any metric, a good bet for promotion. Most people said on here at the start of the season that we'd be in the top half and that would represent progress. We haven't been out of the top half yet all season. I said I think we'll be in with a shout for the top six and if we tighten up and play like we did today, we will be around that area. We're not going to get relegated, so why am I seeing the same sort of attitudes and posts I was seeing when we were getting battered 8-0 by Wigan before we were relegated?

It goes without saying that promotion is lovely, we've had one recently, albeit from a division we shouldn't have allowed ourselves to drop into anyway but that's another story. But I get the feeling that a lot of people's expectations marry up with that of the owners, who themselves speak about us having a top six budget and wanting to be in the top flight etc. We get all starry eyed as billionaires start investing and subconciously we start to think we're better than we are.

LR hit the nail on the head in his post match; half our team are kids. The likes of Delap, Philogene, Greaves, Morton, Connolly and Allahyar, they're all young players - 10 of the lads that played today were under 25. This lot have had a quarter of a season together and lost three games, they're only going to get better the more they play. You can see the improvement from last season, just watch any of our games under Rosenior from last year to this one.

You have to be patient. There isn't a magic fix or a special thing we can do as fans, we have to watch it game by game. We are adding to the quality of the squad over time and we have lads like Philogene, Seri and Tufan who are a level above; if we bring in a couple of players like that every window then we're going to go up sooner or later. If we finish 8th this season, I imagine everybody will be up in arms that we didn't get in the playoffs and LR is at fault for "all the draws".

Sacking managers isn't something we want to start doing, we've had two and a half seasons under Acun and we've had three different managers. It didn't work for Watford, who have spent miles more than we have, it certainly didn't work for Wednesday, it didn't work for Cardiff and it won't work for us. The key is to make long term progress. If we don't finish top half this season by some distance, fine, LR goes, even he'll admit that wouldn't be good enough. But if we get a top ten finish, that tells me we're heading in the right direction with a squad of young, talented players, an owner that gives a **** and a manager who has embedded a playing style that the squad bought into.

We're not the big fish in this league anymore, we're also-rans at the moment, we're out of the spotlight and many would count that as a good thing. We've quietly gone about our transfer business and the likes of Delap and Philogene have made people sit up and take notice a bit. Teams aren't turning up and expecting to roll over us, we were toe to toe with Southampton today and the quality of their subs (Che Adams and Ryan Fraser?) were the difference. Not to say ours aren't quality but they didn't look match fit. Both looked like they needed an U21s game before this one.

Rooney's first home game is gonna have a big crowd drawn to St Andrews for a physical game, which is usually where we do well. We've seen a decent reaction to losses so far this season, I expect we'll see one Wednesday too. Not the time for easy outs or wild calls, because there isn't anybody better we could have at the moment, certainly anybody who would give as much of a **** as Rosey does.

I said the other day we should be treating this season first and foremost as a development season and that top 6 would be a bonus we should obviously be hopeful of but not expecting, and was told that was ridiculous. Excellent post.
 
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