Off Topic Conspiracy Thread

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originallambrettaman said:
I'm not behaving like a child, I've no ****ing idea what the thread was called and if you want to find it you'll have to do it yourself, I've far better things to do than go looking for old threads for you. ****ing divvy.
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Can't find it myself. Search button's ****ed. Be a good little moderator and run along to speak to the site owner about getting it fixed.
 
Spook said:
I know we have this 'no politics, no religion' rule but there's also a third rule about not being an arse to each other and that gets broken all the time. What's so sacred about the first two rules? Wouldn't it be better to just have a single pinned thread on politics and current events? How a about a vote on it? No? Alright.
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Just for the record, as you often refer to the third rule. There were only two rules agreed when we moved on here, no politics and no religion, Ricardo added the don't be an arse to each other rule as an attempt to reduce the amount of bickering, it was never really practical proposition.
 
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terrifictraore said:
Spot on but not only were we the good guys absolutely everything about the losers was bad and it was all their fault. Truly Orwellian.
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Yeah, cause, I mean if looked at objectively, like, the Nazis were actually quite fair and reasonable. We've just painted them as naughty years later, or something.
 
Spook said:
I mean, you can take the piss out of me for being a sad **** and having an interest in a topic but coming onto a football forum and practically begging strangers to wish you a happy birthday is something else. Was it because none of your family wished you a happy birthday?
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Come on mate! I know he may talk a bit of ****! But a bit of respect he's 71! <laugh>
 
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Spook said:
Originally, Hitler and Goebbels, at least in the 1920s, were passionately anti-capitalist but once the Nazis became a real force in German politics during the 1930s, Hitler realised he would need the support of the small-c conservative middle-class and the big industrial corporations and their capitalist owners so he kinda capitulated to them. After that, he needed to purge the Nazi party of its radically left-wing socialist elements to appease the middle and upper classes. Hitler continued to use the rhetoric of socialism in his speeches but he misunderstood the concepts of socialism and instead started referring to Germany's economy as 'productive capitalism' as opposed to the laissez-faire 'parasitic capitalism' they associated with international Jewry.

Socialism by its very definition, as defined by the likes of Marx, Kropotkin, Proudhon and Bakunin, is an economic system where the workers own and control the means of production. A lot of people, particularly in the US but also here in the UK and Europe, falsely believe socialism is about high taxes, nationalised industry, universal healthcare, a welfare state and state ownership. That isn't socialism; it's social democracy based on Keynesian economics which is inherently capitalist and people on both the right and the left make this common misconception. For socialism to exist, the workers have to own the means of production, not the state, private corporations or individuals. This is why modern socialist theorists don't class the Soviet Union, China, North Korea, Venezuela etc. as socialist because those countries' governments controlled the means of production, not the workers. You can have state socialism like Yugoslavia under Tito where the government ensured the workers' ownership but the state itself did not own industry, agriculture or land, or you can have stateless socialism (social anarchism) like Catalonia during the Spanish Civil War where workers' ownership was ensured by trade unions and the community. That brings me on to another misconception about socialism: private property. There's a big difference between private property (property that generates capital based on other peoples' labour, e.g. factories, large farms) and personal property (personal possessions, e.g. a house you occupy, TVs, vehicles, laptops, phones, tools etc.). Socialists want to abolish private property so that people can't generate capital and revenue on the work of others but personal property is fine and actually encouraged.

The Nazis under Hitler ensured private ownership, therefore they can never be classed as socialists. Otto and Gregor Strasser on the other hand wanted to establish a German workers' state, a German socialist republic, where private property would be abolished and German workers controlled the means of production. Hence, why they were purged by Hitler and his supporters.
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So many gaps and omissions there.
 
The greengrocer said:
Come on mate! I know he may talk a bit of ****! But a bit of respect he's 71! <laugh>
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I only rag on people on here when they make ad hominem attacks first. I know it's stooping to their level but they refuse to offer a counter-argument so it's like pissing in the wind trying to be reasonable. I don't genuinely hate the elderly and I don't actually hate anyone on this forum.
 
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