Off Topic Politics Thread

[greensaint]

My vote was NOTHING to do with Immigration , I may be thick , but I am NOT a RACIST !!!!!!!!

I think people of both sides need to calm down , I thought this board was better than this .

Absolutely. Fed up with the generalisations on both sides. I wanted out but favour a relaxed stance on immigration (god, I did work in the NHS for decades) for example. I also don't think I'm stupid, I may be wrong at times but am still entitled to an opinion. When some articulate poorly their fears about changes caused by immigration they shouldn't be labeled thick and castigated, maybe listened to occasionally.

Mind you bet Dave is wishing he allowed 16yr olds + to vote, might've saved him.

 

[Lff]

Whichever way you voted it was a vote based on ignorance. The fact, the only actual fact, is that no one knows what the future holds and that would be true if 'Remain' had won.
I don't think anyone has the right to claim the moral high ground as some are doing. To accuse people of racism is not clever and, for the majority, way off the mark.
I don't even believe this can be interpreted as an anti- Europe vote more an anti-federal Europe vote an an, "I told you so" to the politicians.

 

[A Touch of Clas]

An issue I have a problem with - which I am not pointing at anyone on here as I haven't read the whole thread - is that many remain voters see leave voters as racist, thick, wrong, idiotic etc. No one knows for certain what will change so perhaps the aggression could be cooled.

 

[fatletiss]

Ok fair enough, i know you travel alot for your work and deal with companies worldwide i'm guessing this was a main contributor in why you voted remain, i understand that this out vote could complicate things for you. I work at an independant accident repair centre where we carry out mainly insurance work. These insurance companies who are governed by the EU are bringing in more and more standards and demanding more certificates and tools that will never see the light of day.

The cost of sending staff on training courses and buying specialist tools that will never get used is crippling. There have been 5 bodyshops in a 50 mile radius of me that have gone out of business in the last 2 years due to increasing overheads.

The vote is not based on intellignece or race its based on peoples own personal situation. I will do what i believe to be best for me and my family same as what you would. Its my veiw that i will be more secure with the UK out of the EU i may well be wrong but the way it was going i'm glad we have voted out and i am excited to see what the future holds.

Now we have voted out, I sincerely hope that I have been so wrong and that you are right. What ever it is, we're in it together.

We March on oops got carried away then

 

[fatletiss]

Whichever way you voted it was a vote based on ignorance. The fact, the only actual fact, is that no one knows what the future holds and that would be true if 'Remain' had won.
I don't think anyone has the right to claim the moral high ground as some are doing. To accuse people of racism is not clever and, for the majority, way off the mark.
I don't even believe this can be interpreted as an anti- Europe vote more an anti-federal Europe vote an an, "I told you so" to the politicians.

I agree. Not wishing to speak for Archers, but he seems a decent chap. Just showing more disappointment than others...

 

[fatletiss]

An issue I have a problem with - which I am not pointing at anyone on here as I haven't read the whole thread - is that many remain voters see leave voters as racist, thick, wrong, idiotic etc. No one knows for certain what will change so perhaps the aggression could be cooled.

In truth, I only think Archers has mentioned racism aggressively. He did get a bit aggressive and I truly believe he isn't that type of person. He'll be back in being cool again soon

 

[fatletiss]

Absolutely. Fed up with the generalisations on both sides. I wanted out but favour a relaxed stance on immigration (god, I did work in the NHS for decades) for example. I also don't think I'm stupid, I may be wrong at times but am still entitled to an opinion. When some articulate poorly their fears about changes caused by immigration they shouldn't be labeled thick and castigated, maybe listened to occasionally.

Mind you bet Dave is wishing he allowed 16yr olds + to vote, might've saved him.

Is that right that there was a 100% Remain from a poll?

 

[Saint Sosa]

While no one is claiming that everyone that voted leave is racist/nationalist, you can bet your last diminishing £ that every racist/nationalist voted to leave. Far too many people are getting defensive about the whole thing.

 

[Number 1 Jasper]

In truth, I only think Archers has mentioned racism aggressively. He did get a bit aggressive and I truly believe he isn't that type of person. He'll be back in being cool again soon

I agree . Archers is a good bloke , we are all feeling it today !

 

[saintkitch]

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[greensaint]

Is that right that there was a 100% Remain from a poll?

My daughter says out of 380 6th form students asked in her school 367 were remain.

My only 'but' with some of the stats re age groups, and how they voted, was older people are somehow seen as less important as they will spend less time with the consequences. Might as well just kill the old 'uns off then. Or maybe if they have less time their wishes should be seen as more valuable?

 

[tomw24]

Unsurprisingly, Scotland are going to have a second referendum. Bye Scotland.

 

[ImpSaint]

I'm not blaming you, I am telling you that your statement was wrong. Judging by the response I wonder if you'd actually overlooked the point I raised.

No I understand your disappointment but to call me selfish is not right. I have a differing opinion than you. you have decided I am selfish because my decision has made your product expensive. I can understand but by that statement you must also see that from my side it would be selfish to sacrifice people's well being their state of mind just so that those who aren't at the bottom can enjoy what they have now.

It works both ways. What was selfish was Blair's intention of sacrificing the low paid Brits in favour of cheaper labour and hence more profits.

The reality is that I don't think you are selfish and I don't think you really believe I am selfish. Yes we voted for what we thought would be best for ourselves and our country. If that is being selfish then OK I'll take it but it means we are both being selfish.

We saw the choice from different angles and we made different decisions on the basis of what we believed. I don't think either of us did it to stick 2 fingers up at each other. We did what each of us individually believed was the right thing.

If remain had won as I expected I would be disappointed but I would accept the result. I am tired from 11 years of writing letters to MPs (of 2 colours re & Blue) and being dismissed. I am tired from a few years of "debating" on platforms to put my (and many others) side up. If remain had won I would probably have called it a day. I nearly did a couple of years ago because I had grown tired.

Is it the right decision. Neither you or I know that which is the problem with the whole debate of one side painting pretty pictures and the other side destroying the pictures. Neither of them knew and we don't know. I hope I have made the right choice.

 

[ImpSaint]

When you say it is a good thing it is happening now, that depends on your age and your circumstances. It might be a complete disaster for some that it is happening now.

Judging by the table posted earlier, it would appear that the majority of the 'future of this country' didn't want this.

One thing you can see though is that the university cities were nearly all expected to be remainers whether slight or larger. Newcastle was expected to be 60% remain, Lincoln was expected to be low fifties remain. Newcastle's result with a narrow victory and Lincoln voting to leave says to me that the students didn't turn out to vote.

And if that is the case then people should be asking them why not rather than accusing older people of making a decision. Why did those university areas with thousands of virtually 90% remainers in the campus demographic not turn out?

 

[Number 1 Jasper]

Unsurprisingly, Scotland are going to have a second referendum. Bye Scotland.

How can they ? They as part of the UK voted out .

 

[fatletiss]

No I understand your disappointment but to call me selfish is not right. .

Excuse me Impsaint - where have I called you selfish? I haven't said that.

I've just re-read my post and you have grabbed the stick right at the wrong end. I was saying that I was being selfish because of an immediate affect to me, not you being selfish.

 

[tomw24]

How can they ? They as part of the UK voted out .

I mean a second one to remain or leave the UK. They can then apply for membership to the EU if they leave.

 

[Number 1 Jasper]

I mean a second one to remain or leave the UK. They can then apply for membership to the EU if they leave.

Ah right . I read somewhere else this MAY happen ( Before the result ) .

It was mentioned that currently Oil prices are 1/2 down on what they were at the last vote for independence + re-applying would mean accepting the Euro . Not sure what the latter would in fact mean .

 

[ImpSaint]

I worked as a poll clerk yesterday and it was interesting in that you could just feel what was happening. There was a definite sense of anger at the current situation and those that had allowed it. I have no idea what people were actually voting but many of them wanted to comment on some aspect of it. It was more than anything a protest vote, but one with immense consequences. The truly upsetting thing is that it was all so avoidable if only politicians from across Europe had listened to what the 'man in the street' was saying.

For the leave people this was not a vote about the economy it was a vote about not wanting to be a state in a federal Europe, it was about being able to walk around Southampton and not feel that you're living in Warsaw, it was pure emotion in some cases.

I'm convinced that if the question had been something like, "Would you like to remain in Europe if the Community returned to its original intention of being united in trade" then the result would have been around 90% in favour of remain. But the politicians seem to have no grasp on reality these days (did they ever).

The bottom line is whatever the result, no-one could ever give anything more than an opinion on what would be the best for the country. Is it ultimately good or bad for our youth? We don't know. These are worrying times but I suppose they are also times of immense opportunity for many.

nail hit firmly on the head there. I said earlier that no-one bar a small minority would have been bothered about having a referendum if Europe and our government had accepted that the way freedom of movement of labour was working was not working for many. Even just tinkering and altering it slightly would have helped but the EU stance of No we will not discuss the subject for all those years allied with our government's reluctance or ignorance to discuss the issue just meant that the pot got hotter and hotter and simmered and finally got to the boiling point.

The "warsaw" comment isn't really about feeling like you're living in Warsaw or hearing foreign accents. It is when people would say to politician they are taking over the council estates (of course an exaggeration) the politicians denied that they were even getting council houses when the reality was that we know who is moving into our street. How can a politician tell me they aren't getting a council house when 3 have moved in (that was 2008) 1 in 3 houses on my street now is Eastern European. Many are nice and pleasant young families. We get on but a few are 3 generations in a small house that is unsuitable for 9 or 10 people.

It was the lies and denials as well as refusal to budge publicly by the EU that led to yesterday.

Hopefully more politicians will listen to what people are saying in the future like John Mann has and even Corbyn has said this morning. Corbyn however should not try and tie in the austerity and cuts to this. This all started under Blair. The cuts are just something that makes people a bit angrier about what started back then.

 

[RedandWhiteManofKent]

Just woken up after a late, late night counting votes.

I am still a little surprised by the result and it was not the outcome I voted for.

However, it's still not clear what impact this will have on our lives, businesses and the future of this great country.

Despite all of the debates and arguments I believe that unfortunately the voters were on the whole more confused than they were a year ago on which way to vote.

On a brighter note Kent is crying out for a new hospital having seen many closures and cost cutting exercises over a number of years. If I remember the brexit campaign add correctly, the weekly £350 million that we sent to the EU is the equivalent of a new hospital a week. This is fantastic news, all these new hospitals and a health service we can be proud off. (Already proud of the hard working doctors and nurses, not so much the way it is run).............oh wait a minute, was that put together by politicians and we won't see a penny of that 'saving' re invested in anything worthwhile. Oh well, we can always hope.