Off Topic Politics Thread

[ImpSaint]

It sounds like a lot of people have a problem with capitalism with their complaints of cheap labour taking jobs from the UK. People fail to realise that the UK is ultimately powerless if big companies wish to up sticks and set up elsewhere - IE Ford shutting down their Southampton plant to expand their operation in Turkey. Interesting to note that people genuinely think we can negotiate preferable trade deals when we're likely to lose Scotland, and possibly Northern Ireland. This could lead feasibly us to dropping out of the top 10 economies in the world - after so much of the trade argument was based around us being the 5th biggest economy and countries would be queuing up to agree free trade deals. It's not going to happen and there will have to be compromises on the freedom of movement - which for a lot of people was the main issue of the EU.

I also don't think the polls in the few days leading up to the referendum helped the remain camp at all, as they were all suggesting that the voters would come out and back remain, which I believe led to a lot of would-be remain voters to stay at home as they felt the result would be remain either way. Whereas the leave voters were obviously very passionate about their vote and were much more enthusiastic in persuading people to vote.

Basically, we're going to have to bend over, lube up and let USA, China, Japan, India & the EU have their wicked way with us.

Does the EU have a trade deal with the US, China, Japan & India? No they haven't so we haven't lost anything there.

I understand capitalism but we are talking about a large body that talks about being more powerful than individual countries. Countries try to attract inward investment. If the EU talks about being this bigger better thing then rather than giving loans to companies to take business out of the EU they should have been working hard with corporations to create jobs in the smaller countries making those smaller countries better, giving those small countries a better chance and helping those countries keep hold of more of their young talent.

This is the part I cannot understand. I know that companies will move their business where they want to but the EU should be trying to attract investment into the poorer countries to help them grow and achieve a better standard of living for their own citizens, not just throw money at the poorer countries while the richer countries become magnets for those poor countries people. How are these smaller countries going to move forward when all of their talent has jumped ship?

So why did they not say we will give you an £80m loan IF you build Ford transits in Lithuania?

 

[- Doing The Lambert Walk]

Hodge on Corbyn.

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[ImpSaint]

Racism isn't defined by colour alone,I think Archers is correct but ONLY because that minority who are racist have swung the vote,not that everyone who voted out is racist.

There is a difference between race, ethnicity and nationality. It is quite accepted that black and white are different races even though they aren't. Polish white and British white is the same race different nationality.

the only way you can call Polish/European a different race is if you go by some scholars methodology of race being defined by a language/culture.

 

[- Doing The Lambert Walk]

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[Whiteley Saint]

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The scary thing is it might just happen. Trump as president +shudders+

 

[RedandWhiteManofKent]

By resigning David Cameron will not be able to sign on for 3 months. I hope he will be ok.

 

[ImpSaint]

Hodge on Corbyn.

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This lot have lost the pot. Hodge is a tax dodger that heads up the anti tax dodging committee. The irony. She is also saying that Corbyn failed to get labour's message over to labour's voters. The problem there is that many of those "labour voters" voted UKIP last time round and even if we add those that did vote labour to the ex labour voters. they knew full well what Labour's message was. It was we want to remain in the EU.

If she wants to get rid of Corbyn she should just say it. Corbyn parading around the streets of Northern England with a loudhaler announcing Vote remain would have made no difference.

Labour and this "mobilise the Labour vote" mantra just shows that they think that their voters are idiots waiting for instructions and Labour could go up there say vote remain and all of a sudden they would say OK we were waiting for you to tell us.

Labour have to decide what they stand for these days before they change leadership. The PLP is way off the heartlands vote so are they for the neolibs and luvvies or are they for the grassroots working class and is there any middle ground that could entice both.

A simple change of leader for them is pointless because their policies will still be way off enticing their heartland voters.

 

[fatletiss]

Fair enough. Yes we are probably talking about the same post. This one. I guess I misread it:


We both voted the way that we thought was right. There may be differing reasons in different geographical areas of the UK for our decisions but people haven't tried to p**s anyone off by voting one way. The majority of people have made an honest decision for whatever reason(s) meant the most to them.

Yes that is the one. I was saying that example was me being selfish not you. I didn't want you thinking I had called you selfish. Thanks for replying on that.

I also don't think and haven't said that anyone voted to piss people off. I do believe that a lot of people have voted with a lot of ignorance (ignorance meaning not knowing) and ignorance at different levels. I was ignorant on a lot of the topics involved. All this comes back to what I said on day one, in fact the day Cameron (the bleedin' fool) offered a referendum to the people, if they voted him into power; it is too big and too deep a topic for the public to decide on. I feel this because there was not enough laid out in terms of real facts and 'evidence' to support either side.

Too late now though.

 

[Saint Sosa]

Does the EU have a trade deal with the US, China, Japan & India? No they haven't so we haven't lost anything there.

I understand capitalism but we are talking about a large body that talks about being more powerful than individual countries. Countries try to attract inward investment. If the EU talks about being this bigger better thing then rather than giving loans to companies to take business out of the EU they should have been working hard with corporations to create jobs in the smaller countries making those smaller countries better, giving those small countries a better chance and helping those countries keep hold of more of their young talent.

This is the part I cannot understand. I know that companies will move their business where they want to but the EU should be trying to attract investment into the poorer countries to help them grow and achieve a better standard of living for their own citizens, not just throw money at the poorer countries while the richer countries become magnets for those poor countries people. How are these smaller countries going to move forward when all of their talent has jumped ship?

So why did they not say we will give you an £80m loan IF you build Ford transits in Lithuania?

It doesn't, as far as I am aware there are negotiations lined up with the EU and those countries - which are going to be higher on the agenda for those countries than a trade deal with us. It's nonsensical to believe that somehow we're going to end up with a better jobs market than the EU, who can offer a higher population, a younger population and also lower wages.

The EU has done a lot of work in improving the infrastructure of it's poorer members, which the leave voters complained about as HOW DARE MY TAX MONEY GO TO FOREIGNERS, of course I know you're not one of them and I'm not trying to lump you in with that group, but you cannot deny that that demographic was a large % of the leave campaign. With the improved infrastructure (that happens over time) it will lead to increase investment in these countries but it's not as simple as just flying to Lithuania and buying some land and building a factory, there are logistics and foundations that need to be in place before this can happen.

Because Ford have operations in an EU trade agreement with Turkey (Free Movement of Goods & Commercial Policy) so I'm confused as to why you think it's a problem? £80m to set up a factory is peanuts, and quite frankly there is no reason for them to prioritise Lithuania over Turkey.

 

[ImpSaint]

One of my mates who is a remainer and pretty disappointed posted this pic on my facebook:

Live scenes from the Channel Tunnel

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[Archers Road]

A simple change of leader for them is pointless because their policies will still be way off enticing their heartland voters.

What, the thick racists you mean? Yeah, that could be a problem.

 

[ImpSaint]

It doesn't, as far as I am aware there are negotiations lined up with the EU and those countries - which are going to be higher on the agenda for those countries than a trade deal with us. It's nonsensical to believe that somehow we're going to end up with a better jobs market than the EU, who can offer a higher population, a younger population and also lower wages.

The EU has done a lot of work in improving the infrastructure of it's poorer members, which the leave voters complained about as HOW DARE MY TAX MONEY GO TO FOREIGNERS, of course I know you're not one of them and I'm not trying to lump you in with that group, but you cannot deny that that demographic was a large % of the leave campaign. With the improved infrastructure (that happens over time) it will lead to increase investment in these countries but it's not as simple as just flying to Lithuania and buying some land and building a factory, there are logistics and foundations that need to be in place before this can happen.

Because Ford have operations in an EU trade agreement with Turkey (Free Movement of Goods & Commercial Policy) so I'm confused as to why you think it's a problem? £80m to set up a factory is peanuts, and quite frankly there is no reason for them to prioritise Lithuania over Turkey.

Because Lithuania, Latvia, Romania, Bulgaria, Estonia, Hungary, Slovakia, Slovenia are full members of the EU. Turkey is not. They could have made jobs for a country in the EU. They could have loaned more. That would say "this is what we can do for countries in the EU". What they have done is say "We are doing things for countries that aren't in yet, sorry."

Yes they provide money to the small countries but like Blair throwing money around and not worried about what that meant they throw money around. They should be doing that groundwork, Working for the EU. They didn't. They just give money and the people leave to look for work in richer countries meaning that country has less chance of improving because they lose their pool of potential to other countries.

Same in this country at the moment. We have put x billion extra into the NHS that means x more nurses, x more doctors. What they don't say is oh we will be importing them from other countries which is fine, oh and that is new policy so we're scrapping bursaries because its cheaper to import nurses and doctors so we're not bothering to train our own people up anymore. It is using people as commodities. Go for the cheapest option and don't worry about our own. Throw them a handout to shut them up.

 

[fatletiss]

What, the thick racists you mean? Yeah, that could be a problem.

Come on Archers, you are better than that. I'm upset and genuinely worried, but we neat to keep from offending people. *

*unless they are scousers (red or blue), Spuds or a certain fat Dutchman.

 

[ImpSaint]

What, the thick racists you mean? Yeah, that could be a problem.

If you think Labour heartland voters are racists then yes.

 

[Archers Road]

If you think Labour heartland voters are racists then yes.

Sadly mate, many are.

For the record, I have not pointed the finger at you or any other individual on this board. But I'm not the one who just handed victory to the little England throwbacks and far right thugs, and I am not the one blaming all my problems on Eastern European migrants.

 

[- Doing The Lambert Walk]

Both my parents voted leave. Do I think they're thick racists? No.

Do I think they made the right decision for my generation? No.

Am I going to sit here and bitch and whine about it and then be surprised if it won't work out for me? No.

That's democracy. Now I'm just interested in making sure 'independent Britain' (in whatever form in takes) is as good as it can be.

 

[Archers Road]

Both my parents voted leave. Do I think they're thick racists? No.

Do I think they made the right decision for my generation? No.

Am I going to sit here and bitch and whine about it and then be surprised if it won't work out for me? No.

That's democracy. Now I'm just interested in making sure 'independent Britain' (in whatever form in takes) is as good as it can be.

Might take some of us a bit longer to come round. Give me a year or so.

Meanwhile, any ideas what I should say my Polish and Hungarian colleagues?

 

[Beef]

Chris Ship ‏@chrisshipitv
Just heard this rumour in the City: both @BNPParibas and @jpmorgan planning to relocate to Paris [HASHTAG]#BrexitVote[/HASHTAG]

https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/sta...15661593423872

He is an ITV reporter.

 

[AL.]

Both of you are right here: there are some frustrations but one cannot ignore the divisive and horrid rhetoric in this campaign.

I'm not going to simply say, hey ho, my side lost, and I'm happy with you right wing nutters running the country and taking us out of the EU. It's democracy, yes, and I accept that. I don't have to like it or agree with it.

 

[Piebacca]

See, I voted out in the end, because the inevitable destination for the EU is some kind of European superstate. I don't want to see us have any part of that.