Off Topic EU deabte. Which way are you voting ?

That's not what you said. We don't have control of our borders. That's very different from Open borders. Having control suggests we can choose who to let in or out (or literally we have a giant wall across our country, we got the next best thing a big moat). Spurs boy is right and you are still wrong

 

So 250,000 migrants get given Italian passports, they then can move freely to Britain. Schengen is about passport control, but if you have an EU passport, you can travel freely. The problem with current immigration is that we get too many from inside EU who've no particular skills and too few from outside EU who are Doctors, Nurses, Scientists, Engineers etc

 

Just on this point.

Post the new legislation that followed Camerons negotiation with the EU. EU citizens who come to his country are entitled to no benefits whatsoever for 3 months. After 3 months they are eligible for JSA and child benefit, but NOT housing benefit - and only for 3 months. If at the end of that 3 months they cannot prove that they have an imminent prospect of work i.e. a job offer, then they get **** all.

So, economic migrants who come here now, either have to work and add to the economy or have the funds to be self sufficient or basically **** off.

 

We can apply for that for a while. It is not a long term agreement. The EU can say no even now. I'm arguing against myself, cause I'm for staying - mainly cause I don't trust an unfettered Tory govt, but doesn't change the fact that Cameron's deal is worth very little.

 

Pretty much yeah

 

In fairness it's worth something and it's seemingly not widely known as to how the system now actually works, given some of the absolute tripe I've seen written about the immigration issue during the EU debate.

 

Let's kill off the argument that the EU is undemocratic. The European Parliament is elected by all enfranchised citizens of the EU by proportional representation, unlike in the UK where 25% of the electorate have voted in a government that can dictate to the other 75%. The EU commisioners from each country are appointed by the head of that country's elected government similar to how Hunt was appointed Secretary of State for Health. The President is agreed upon by the heads of the 28 member countries. The only unaccountable staff at the EU are the bureaucrats, just like our own civil service. The British interests, however are not well served by many of the MEPs that we elected as they do not bother to take part in the process and only go to claim their expenses. Leading the way in that respect is the idiot Farage.
There is room for much improvement within the EU, but as we are still going to have to meet EU standards for trade it is obviously better that we are part of the decision making process.

I have voted to remain in the EU . Do not let all the myths about the EU cloud your judgement.

 

Will I get a wage rise? I go wherever I get a wage rise.

 

Didn't you just get one?

 

I need another...the last one was patronising.

P.s I'm voting for whatever you vote Sky. That cut and paste you did was my kind of level, top job.

 

I'm trusting that guys telling me the truth and I'm voting 'IN'

Tobes and Bod are just geeks and making my head hurt.

 

I said that we don't have open borders. We are not in Schengen, therefore you have to have a passport and go through immigration control as you enter the UK. EU citizens have free movement, but they still have to go through the border checks like anybody else.

The point I'm making is that the Out campaign paint a picture of people coming in unchecked and 'flooding' the country and there's nothing we can do about it. That simply isn't the case.

 

Do you have any facts and figures to back this up with ? Not contesting it, I'm just interested you know where you're getting that info from. The figures from HRMC show that immigrants contribute more in taxes into the exchequer than they do in benefit receipts, so the net gain is a positive one for the UK economy.

Also, I was listening to a prog on Radio 4 the other evening where a food processor was saying that even unskilled EU workers contribute massively to the UK economy by doing the jobs at minimum wage that English people just won't do. His example was food packagers. He used Polish, Latvian and Hungarian workers because he cannot get English people to do the jobs. If we left the EU and restricted the free movement and employment rights of EU nationals, then he was saying that food prices would rise because he would have to pay more to attract UK workers to the jobs.

 

I think I'm voting to stay in.

 

I've added a Poll

Simple question, In or out ?

 

Except that virtually half the net migration into the UK (185,000) is from outside the EU. How many doctors, nurses, scientists, engineers cant you find in that number?

 

I'm voting to leave still as even before we were in the EU in 1973 we were still breathing, living and walking and also how do you know those thing were not to happen anyway we are not a ****ing third world country. If people want your products they will buy, if Britain is the best people to make things then we will have trade. People are so scared of leaving the EU we feel like they have to hold our ****ing hands and ask them before we go for a piss.
We need to break from the EU and be a leader and take our identity back not be a ****ing sheep.

So I'm out, **** the EU those who vote to stay good luck to you cowards.

 

This argument always seems to miss some vital points to me. No one is saying that people will totally cease to buy our products/goods, only that it will cost us more to sell them, and cost us more to buy products from the EU. Note - we currently trade more with Holland than with China while something like 60% of our trade is with Europe.

I also remember reading of the 70s and rolling blackouts, 3 day weeks, mass industrial action/union threats and lots of racial tension and the rise of the National Front from low wages/prospects. Ignoring the fact that the world has changed dramatically in the last 35 years, this isnt a particularly good advert for the Outers to use

 

But even that is missing the point totally, the point is that you'd lose the current protection of our Human Rights, Workers Rights, Minimum Pay, H&S Standards, Leave entitlements, protection against things like discrimination ect that we currently enjoy, and instead enable any serving government to do away with any and all of those rights on a whim. (very likely to happen very quickly based on the promised of the current government - never mind waiting 4 years to vote them out!).

We had rights before the EU came in you know unless EU have some kind of wizardry place. Also didn't our government introduce the living wage and not the EU and in the 50/60's our government did introduce holiday pay well before the EU were involved. More scaremongering EU are magic and we wouldn't have these if we let what a load of bull.

 

Yes the world has changed and so have we, it wouldn't go back like the 70's if we leave though. I'm saying we did ok for what we had at that time, I was a kid and we got through it like any other country did. Its a different era now and things have moved on and its about time Britain did and change the way we approach our future and let us decide what happens to our future not somebody in Brussels.