Off Topic Political Debate

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One of the big advantages of being in the EU touted on here a few times was the "European Arrest Warrant". Well it seems that it is not worth much - the terrorist suspect arrested in Belgium is fighting extradition to France and it make weeks to pack him off to France. So we have the situation that a terrorist can freely cross the border between Belgium and France to commit mayhem and murder but cannot be transported across the same border for justice. If this goes to the ECHR it could take years!
Actually what I find more amazing is that France has not simply but him in a Black Maria and ship him straight across the border - that is the normal response to EU regulations that they dislike.
 
wear_yellow said:
One of the big advantages of being in the EU touted on here a few times was the "European Arrest Warrant". Well it seems that it is not worth much - the terrorist suspect arrested in Belgium is fighting extradition to France and it make weeks to pack him off to France. So we have the situation that a terrorist can freely cross the border between Belgium and France to commit mayhem and murder but cannot be transported across the same border for justice. If this goes to the ECHR it could take years!
Actually what I find more amazing is that France has not simply but him in a Black Maria and ship him straight across the border - that is the normal response to EU regulations that they dislike.
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Weasely lawyers are the reason he's not gone yet, it's nothing to do with the EU.
 
colognehornet said:
We're not criticizing your politics SH. but your manner of constantly backbiting and trying to belittle other posters.
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I'm waiting for your criticism of Toby, whose comments always ends up with insult
colognehornet said:
We're not criticizing your politics SH. but your manner of constantly backbiting and trying to belittle other posters.
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You also need to be more consistent with your criticism
 
superhorns said:
I'm waiting for your criticism of Toby, whose comments always ends up with insult

You also need to be more consistent with your criticism
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I don't start the insults <ok>

You constantly attack, belittle and insult people because your arguments are based on anything but facts, it's all you have left...
 
[QUOTE="Toby, post: 9053382, member: 1004277"]I don't start the insults <ok>

You constantly attack, belittle and insult people because your arguments are based on anything but facts, it's all you have left...[/QUOTE

:emoticon-0136-giggl
 
colognehornet said:
We're not criticizing your politics SH. but your manner of constantly backbiting and trying to belittle other posters.
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That is my pointr
wear_yellow said:
Your implied point Yorkie that all was sweetness and light on here until one particular poster joined and that has caused this friction. My point is that there is more than one poster that is causing friction...Norway also left after a particularly fractious night of posting and in particular with someone who has also left recently, so you cannot hang that at the door of SH.
It seems that the needle of the moral compass on the web board only points in one direction...but as I wrote a few weeks ago, I am not going to go down the abuse road - but I will point out the hypocrisy and vile posting of people who belittle terminal illness - it's a shame that some of those claiming the moral compass could not either.
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Well I didn't really engage with the politics thread until the election...so never saw why Norway stopped posting....I am also aware that two other people have left these boards as a direct result of this threa.....

But that is not a reason to keep continuing to behave in this way.

I also dont understand why you line up on our friends side at every turn..... I thought you had a more eclectic taste in music.

These message boards used to good fun and we all rubbed along together...... this thread started the divisions.... I have regularly asked not to be stereotyped and to talk about issues and political philosophy etc as a way forward rather than party politics.
 
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wear_yellow said:
Blimey Yorkie, you are re-spinning the spin from Number 10. I listened to his ex-colleague Ross Altmann on 5-Live yesterday claiming that this was nothing to do with IDS resigning because he disagreed with the cuts to disability payments announced in the budget, but rather because of Brexit - pushed for some sort of proof or asked if she had discussed this with ISD, she could not answer. Now this is the same Ross Altmann who as Pensions Minister was amazingly quite in the lead up to the Budget when is was widely rumoured that Osbourne was going to make changes to pension legislation that would have impacted higher tax rate payers - looks like she is another of those Tory mouth pieces, one who until recently was employed in the pension industry, who you would normally decry . This EU question is throwing up some strange bed fellows....
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I just find the divisions interesting as one day they are all speaking from the same crib sheet and the next attacking each other..... seems to be that IDS is using the disability issue to jump ship so he can reinvent himself....did you see him on Andrew Marr yesterday, unbelievable how he can change his tune....

We were talking at lunch yesterday and one view is that this first step of the leadership battle which will be pushed on the agenda post the referendum....'Time for Cameron to go and we dont want Osbourne as he is not in touch with the people etc...'

Nobody seems to care about the poor recipients of the DLA who must be desperately hoping they will not still lose out.
 
yorkshirehornet said:
I just find the divisions interesting as one day they are all speaking from the same crib sheet and the next attacking each other..... seems to be that IDS is using the disability issue to jump ship so he can reinvent himself....did you see him on Andrew Marr yesterday, unbelievable how he can change his tune....

We were talking at lunch yesterday and one view is that this first step of the leadership battle which will be pushed on the agenda post the referendum....'Time for Cameron to go and we dont want Osbourne as he is not in touch with the people etc...'

Nobody seems to care about the poor recipients of the DLA who must be desperately hoping they will not still lose out.
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You constantly get involved in party politics which is why you are highlighting the present divisions in the tory party. You are very selective which topics you post.

IDS has not changed his tune if you actually listened to him yesterday.
 
Politics is a huge subject which means different things to different people. For some it is restricted to a purely party political debate (Tory vs. Labour) although the differences between them are sometimes minimal. For me the tragic side of this is that we appear to be permanently distracted with themes such as the Euro crisis, terrorism, immigration, refugee crisis etc. all of which means that the environment is pushed further and further back on the agenda. The biggest challenge facing us in this century is that of global warming and man's impact on this - in this context Germany is the only EU. nation currently increasing its Co2 emissions (despite all of its Green, alternative power rhetoric) yet where is the international criticism of this ? The refugee crisis which we now have is minimal compared to the projected environmental human displacement of the future - where whole tracts of the World could become uninhabitable - this is the burning issue of the day, yet appears to be the one we are most ready to postpone. The debate on EU. membership is important enough to not be based on rumours, individual allignments, Tory party civil war etc. but on tangible facts - but, from an environmental perspective a withdrawal from the EU. could only be based upon the assumption that our trade and political affiliations would become closer to the USA., China etc. my belief is that we would lose more sovereignty than we would gain by taking that course, and also that environmental standards would drop in that scenario.
 
yorkshirehornet said:
That is my pointr


Well I didn't really engage with the politics thread until the election...so never saw why Norway stopped posting....I am also aware that two other people have left these boards as a direct result of this threa.....

But that is not a reason to keep continuing to behave in this way.

I also dont understand why you line up on our friends side at every turn..... I thought you had a more eclectic taste in music.

These message boards used to good fun and we all rubbed along together...... this thread started the divisions.... I have regularly asked not to be stereotyped and to talk about issues and political philosophy etc as a way forward rather than party politics.
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It was not the political thread that Norway left over, but again my point was that others have left before and you were trying to place people leaving all at the door of one person.

I don't line up with anyone, if I fundamentally disagree with someone I will say so..I probably agree with SH more than most and I don't rise to his deliberate fishing trips and find it highly amusing when others do and then throw their hands in the air when he casts his net again. First rule of the internet is to ignore trolls, but surely if you give someone a big fat juicy worm you can hardly complain when they go fishing with it. Because of this, many gloss over points that they would agree with - including you. A very good example is the tax changes in the Budget - at the time and again today SH stated that he did not believe tax reductions were a good idea at this time, I also believe that (even though they give me more disposable) and you even stated it. Yet we are portrayed on here are not caring monsters....
 
wear_yellow said:
It was not the political thread that Norway left over, but again my point was that others have left before and you were trying to place people leaving all at the door of one person..
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I actually do not know why he left....
wear_yellow said:
I don't line up with anyone, if I fundamentally disagree with someone I will say so..I probably agree with SH more than most and I don't rise to his deliberate fishing trips and find it highly amusing when others do and then throw their hands in the air when he casts his net again. First rule of the internet is to ignore trolls, but surely if you give someone a big fat juicy worm you can hardly complain when they go fishing with it. Because of this, many gloss over points that they would agree with - including you. A very good example is the tax changes in the Budget - at the time and again today SH stated that he did not believe tax reductions were a good idea at this time, I also believe that (even though they give me more disposable) and you even stated it. Yet we are portrayed on here are not caring monsters....
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As for SH ... if he changes his tune I will engage with him... if not i will not.

IMO you do take his side particularly when people quite rightly take offence at his trolling.... If he is a troll why bother?? He makes an abusive post... .the recipient reacts and then you seem to make some judgment. I may be totally wrong ....I have not seen you crit his abuse.....


Yes I cannot respect views in posts which are designed to belittle others... I have him on Ignore so don't read his posts anymore. I just took a look today and have seen he is carrying on the same.

In days gone by it was a friendlier place to be.................
 
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yorkshirehornet said:
I just find the divisions interesting as one day they are all speaking from the same crib sheet and the next attacking each other..... seems to be that IDS is using the disability issue to jump ship so he can reinvent himself....did you see him on Andrew Marr yesterday, unbelievable how he can change his tune....

We were talking at lunch yesterday and one view is that this first step of the leadership battle which will be pushed on the agenda post the referendum....'Time for Cameron to go and we dont want Osbourne as he is not in touch with the people etc...'

Nobody seems to care about the poor recipients of the DLA who must be desperately hoping they will not still lose out.
Click to expand...

Yes, I did see him on Andrew Marr and then listed to the Politics show on 5-Live later in the morning. I agree with SH, to me he came across as someone who really did not like the cuts for the Disabled proposed in the Budget and his only way out after arguing directly with the PM was to resign. I just cannot see him doing this as a method of trying the line up the PM's job for himself if there is a Brexit - there are just too many "what if's" and the elephant in the room is BoJo, he would be the massive favourite to get the PM job if the "what if's" align. TBH I have listened to IDS a lot of the past couple of years and if you take out the obvious knee-jerk reaction to any sort of cuts in benefits, he has genuinely tried to find ways of moving from a benefits culture to a work culture - problem with trying to reign in the massive benefits culture in this country that successive governments have failed to address is that those left holding the baby will always be the bad guys not matter what they do. The fool on here will still shout "Tory scum"....
 
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colognehornet said:
Politics is a huge subject which means different things to different people. For some it is restricted to a purely party political debate (Tory vs. Labour) although the differences between them are sometimes minimal. For me the tragic side of this is that we appear to be permanently distracted with themes such as the Euro crisis, terrorism, immigration, refugee crisis etc. all of which means that the environment is pushed further and further back on the agenda. The biggest challenge facing us in this century is that of global warming and man's impact on this - in this context Germany is the only EU. nation currently increasing its Co2 emissions (despite all of its Green, alternative power rhetoric) yet where is the international criticism of this ? The refugee crisis which we now have is minimal compared to the projected environmental human displacement of the future - where whole tracts of the World could become uninhabitable - this is the burning issue of the day, yet appears to be the one we are most ready to postpone. The debate on EU. membership is important enough to not be based on rumours, individual allignments, Tory party civil war etc. but on tangible facts - but, from an environmental perspective a withdrawal from the EU. could only be based upon the assumption that our trade and political affiliations would become closer to the USA., China etc. my belief is that we would lose more sovereignty than we would gain by taking that course, and also that environmental standards would drop in that scenario.
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Environmental concerns are put on the back burner at every turn eh...

I think EU policy on the environment whilst limited is better than if we were to go alone.

You point re sovereignty is equally important. I would not want to sell out any more to the US... and China is yes a real potential problem as I have mentioned before. Human rights plus the power play.....
 
yorkshirehornet said:
I actually do not know why he left....


As for SH ... if he changes his tune I will engage with him... if not i will not.

IMO you do take his side particularly when people quite rightly take offence at his trolling.... If he is a troll why bother?? He makes an abusive post... .the recipient reacts and then you seem to make some judgment. I may be totally wrong ....I have not seen you crit his abuse.....


Yes I cannot respect views in posts which are designed to belittle others... I have him on Ignore so don't read his posts anymore. I just took a look today and have seen he is carrying on the same.

In days gone by it was a friendlier place to be.................
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As I said, I will align with SH on some things economics and the EU, but not necessarily much else - I agreed with you and Cologne last week as well!....but there seems to be a selective damnation on this thread
 
wear_yellow said:
It was not the political thread that Norway left over, but again my point was that others have left before and you were trying to place people leaving all at the door of one person.

I don't line up with anyone, if I fundamentally disagree with someone I will say so..I probably agree with SH more than most and I don't rise to his deliberate fishing trips and find it highly amusing when others do and then throw their hands in the air when he casts his net again. First rule of the internet is to ignore trolls, but surely if you give someone a big fat juicy worm you can hardly complain when they go fishing with it. Because of this, many gloss over points that they would agree with - including you. A very good example is the tax changes in the Budget - at the time and again today SH stated that he did not believe tax reductions were a good idea at this time, I also believe that (even though they give me more disposable) and you even stated it. Yet we are portrayed on here are not caring monsters....
Click to expand...

FYI i'm not sure SH was against the tax cuts (unless you want to throw that out there as another fishing trip). He may mention it today that he thinks its wrong now that IDS has resigned over it but he was in full favour of it a few days ago
 
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wear_yellow said:
Yes, I did see him on Andrew Marr and then listed to the Politics show on 5-Live later in the morning. I agree with SH, to me he came across as someone who really did not like the cuts for the Disabled proposed in the Budget and his only way out after arguing directly with the PM was to resign. I just cannot see him doing this as a method of trying the line up the PM's job for himself if there is a Brexit - there are just too many "what if's" and the elephant in the room is BoJo, he would be the massive favourite to get the PM job if the "what if's" align. TBH I have listened to IDS a lot of the past couple of years and if you take out the obvious knee-jerk reaction to any sort of cuts in benefits, he has genuinely tried to find ways of moving from a benefits culture to a work culture - problem with trying to reign in the massive benefits culture in this country that successive governments have failed to address is that those left holding the baby will always be the bad guys not matter what they do. The fool on here will still shout "Tory scum"....
Click to expand...

I guess we will see over the next few months. Agree re BoJo but do MPS favour him.... not sure on that one...

But the problem with the benefits cuts is that many many people who are decent human beings but unable to work etc etc are put in the same basket as the avoiders who manage to fiddle the system. Additionally if the Govt went after the tax avoiders at the other end the revenue gained would put the money they are trying to claw back through welfare fiddling in the shade.
 
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