Off Topic Political Debate

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colognehornet said:
Will we still have a government after the referendum ? Cameron has said that he would stay on even if 'Brexit' won the day, but could he ? If this Tory civil war becomes less 'civil',leading to votes of no confidence etc. then we could have another election well before 2020.
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There will not be a vote of no confidence. It would improve the government's and the UK's chances if there was a tory leadership election, after the referendum, in which a candidate more representative of normal life was successful.

I wonder how different the country would be if David Davis had become leader of the Conservative Party.?
 
superhorns said:
No, IDS is a thoroughly decent and intelligent guy who was pushed too far by Osborne's narrow options on welfare cuts. This has certainly damaged Osborne's premiership hopes. He has managed to appear mean whilst not properly cutting costs. The tax giveaways to the better off, although in the Tory manifesto, was ill timed, a bit of an own goal.

However it will all be forgotten by 2020.
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Thoroughly decent and intelligent? The bottom line is this - in May you and a fair few other Tory voters were ****ing in your cornflakes celebrating the opportunity to penalise the workshy. The evidence is on this thread. IDS was your icon.
Now that the Tories have done what they said they would do you are getting cold feet and the fact he is in the out camp is a massive bonus for you.
If an in camp Minister did the same you would be burning his effigy.
 
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Dan Starkey said:
Thoroughly decent and intelligent? The bottom line is this - in May you and a fair few other Tory voters were ****ing in your cornflakes celebrating the opportunity to penalise the workshy. The evidence is on this thread. IDS was your icon.
Now that the Tories have done what they said they would do you are getting cold feet and the fact he is in the out camp is a massive bonus for you.
If an in camp Minister did the same you would be burning his effigy.
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It was obvious to most people that the welfare budget along with other government expenditure needed to be cut, no problem with that. Osborne has been guilty of not cutting expenditure enough and handing out tax cuts which the country cannot afford if our national debt is to be reduced.
Boom & bust Brown increased reliance on the state, creating a something for nothing culture, for political reasons.

The country wants a financially responsible chancellor but he must be seen to act in the interest of the whole population.

The EU subject is a completely different issue.
 
wear_yellow said:
6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other Yorkie - does not explain Norway does it?
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There is a difference between friendly discussion which I believe we were about... and the toxic point scoring which is now what this descends to w_y.

I actually thought Norway left as he was spending too much time on these boards. I used to play chess with him online regularly. He still freely posts his UKIP views elsewhere.....

I think most politicians are self seeking and the back stabbing which we now see in the Tory ranks IMO is despicable. I wish we could have a more reasoned debate here but so often falls into I-am-right- you-wear-sandals ( ;) ) stuff.
 
yorkshirehornet said:
There is a difference between friendly discussion which I believe we were about... and the toxic point scoring which is now what this descends to w_y.

I actually thought Norway left as he was spending too much time on these boards. I used to play chess with him online regularly. He still freely posts his UKIP views elsewhere.....

I think most politicians are self seeking and the back stabbing which we now see in the Tory ranks IMO is despicable. I wish we could have a more reasoned debate here but so often falls into I-am-right- you-wear-sandals ( ;) ) stuff.
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I was repeatedly attacked for copying and posting relevant articles to the discussion on here by a certain poster that is now pretending to be high and mighty.

Now the other little Tory mascot has joined in.

I've avoided being confrontational but there's only so much I'm willing to take...
 
Toby said:
I was repeatedly attacked for copying and posting relevant articles to the discussion on here by a certain poster that is now pretending to be high and mighty.

Now the other little Tory mascot has joined in.

I've avoided being confrontational but there's only so much I'm willing to take...
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I think many of us have cut and pasted..... even certain PMs!

I seen no problem as much of it is informative and adds to the debate and is much more clearly written than many of us could do.

I am really trying not to fall into the I am right and you are wrong debate. The politicians do it so much better,,,,,

Brexit is a classic example reasoned debate seems impossible. I was going to post something this morning about the CBI position but can guarantee the response.
 
Toby said:
I was repeatedly attacked for copying and posting relevant articles to the discussion on here by a certain poster that is now pretending to be high and mighty.

Now the other little Tory mascot has joined in.

I've avoided being confrontational but there's only so much I'm willing to take...
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:emoticon-0136-giggl
 
yorkshirehornet said:
I think many of us have cut and pasted..... even certain PMs!

I seen no problem as much of it is informative and adds to the debate and is much more clearly written than many of us could do.

I am really trying not to fall into the I am right and you are wrong debate. The politicians do it so much better,,,,,

Brexit is a classic example reasoned debate seems impossible. I was going to post something this morning about the CBI position but can guarantee the response.
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I read the same article but I know what you mean....

Certain people claim Brexit will enhance trade, and businesses want it...

Businesses say they don't want it as it will damage trade...

We get laughed at for being lefties that listen to businesses with vested interests...

There are no logical steps between each one.

It all boils down to covert xenophobia...
 
superhorns said:
It was obvious to most people that the welfare budget along with other government expenditure needed to be cut, no problem with that. Osborne has been guilty of not cutting expenditure enough and handing out tax cuts which the country cannot afford if our national debt is to be reduced.
Boom & bust Brown increased reliance on the state, creating a something for nothing culture, for political reasons.

The country wants a financially responsible chancellor but he must be seen to act in the interest of the whole population.

The EU subject is a completely different issue.
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It amazes me that Labour are always seen as being fiscally incompetent. Maybe this has more to do with the media than it does with the actual facts.
The financial crisis of 2008/9 did not arise due to government spending but rather because of foolish deregulation and an over reliance on the financial sector. The public spending of the Thatcher government was 46% of GDP from 1980 to 1985 compared to 40.4% under the Brown government. The overall deficit under Tory governments from 1970 - 2008 has been 2.9% of GDP compared to Labours 2.6%. The annual debt interest paid under the Tories 1979-97 was 3.5%, under Labour it was 2.3%. Unemployment was also highest under the Tories - over 10% for 6 continuous years under Thatcher - under Labour from 1997 - 2010 it was 5.6%. Where do we get the idea from that the Tories are better for the economy ? Is it fiscally competent to waste so much money on Trident for example ?
 
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yorkshirehornet said:
There is a difference between friendly discussion which I believe we were about... and the toxic point scoring which is now what this descends to w_y.

I actually thought Norway left as he was spending too much time on these boards. I used to play chess with him online regularly. He still freely posts his UKIP views elsewhere.....

I think most politicians are self seeking and the back stabbing which we now see in the Tory ranks IMO is despicable. I wish we could have a more reasoned debate here but so often falls into I-am-right- you-wear-sandals ( ;) ) stuff.
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Your implied point Yorkie that all was sweetness and light on here until one particular poster joined and that has caused this friction. My point is that there is more than one poster that is causing friction...Norway also left after a particularly fractious night of posting and in particular with someone who has also left recently, so you cannot hang that at the door of SH.
It seems that the needle of the moral compass on the web board only points in one direction...but as I wrote a few weeks ago, I am not going to go down the abuse road - but I will point out the hypocrisy and vile posting of people who belittle terminal illness - it's a shame that some of those claiming the moral compass could not either.
 
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yorkshirehornet said:
Very interesting unfolding of the IDS saga.

Reading the backstories from his ministerial team.... all seems just a bit odd.....

Is this a public dissociation... prior to the referendum and a future leadership challenge...... ?
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Blimey Yorkie, you are re-spinning the spin from Number 10. I listened to his ex-colleague Ross Altmann on 5-Live yesterday claiming that this was nothing to do with IDS resigning because he disagreed with the cuts to disability payments announced in the budget, but rather because of Brexit - pushed for some sort of proof or asked if she had discussed this with ISD, she could not answer. Now this is the same Ross Altmann who as Pensions Minister was amazingly quite in the lead up to the Budget when is was widely rumoured that Osbourne was going to make changes to pension legislation that would have impacted higher tax rate payers - looks like she is another of those Tory mouth pieces, one who until recently was employed in the pension industry, who you would normally decry . This EU question is throwing up some strange bed fellows....
 
wear_yellow said:
Your implied point Yorkie that all was sweetness and light on here until one particular poster joined and that has caused this friction. My point is that there is more than one poster that is causing friction...Norway also left after a particularly fractious night of posting and in particular with someone who has also left recently, so you cannot hang that at the door of SH.
It seems that the needle of the moral compass on the web board only points in one direction...but as I wrote a few weeks ago, I am not going to go down the abuse road - but I will point out the hypocrisy and vile posting of people who belittle terminal illness - it's a shame that some of those claiming the moral compass could not either.
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I never did that, stop being so desperate.
 
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