Is it going to take another tragedy for the sick chants to finally end?

[DirtyFrank]

No I think Page is just being an opportunist tbh.

But I agree with the rest of your post. Personally I couldnt give a fck if every single United fan involved was banned for life. I wouldnt give a fck. And neither would the club as they'll fill their seats and dont rely on revenue from match going fans anyway.

I still find the whole thing surreal though. I cant believe it's as bad as it was tbh. I've been to European games at OT where Italians have kicked off but the United fans have behaved/controlled themselves. United Liverpool play each other season in season out so this makes little sense.

I'd like to think it wouldnt take much by both clubs to make sure it doesnt happen again.

And that's what pisses me off with both clubs...enough fans to fill the arseholes seats..just ban the feckers...there's no economic or moral reason to be reluctant to do so...

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Ahhh so you're all about the point scoring. Gotcha

Listen mate lets not piss around, the fact they're part of UEFA is just an opportunity taken to have a pop at them. That's what I find so disingenuous about 3 or 4 posters on here. They don't really want to take ownership, not really. They still look for ways to blame the other guy.

It's the 'we're more hard done by' mentality that continuously rears its ugly head with some Pool fans. That's what this is all about for some. Then the paranoia kicks in where media, UEFA, the world is all against them All entertained conveniently within the confines of Merseyside or the Liverpool board where you have bitters like Donga and Astro to feed off, but not in the real world.

I live and work in Yorkshire, mate, and not one person I've spoken to over here, including several Man U fans - one who was there on Thursday- are not astonished that on the chant issue it is Liverpool fans andn not United fans being cited by UEFA. And without any prompting from me, the majority of them mentioned David Gill before I got there.

It's not my imagination feller. people are disgusted with both sets of fans (ironic, as the Munich song started at Leeds, as I remember) but every neutral watching TV, even non-neutrals like Tobes, knows that they heard 180 minutes worth of incessant chanting about Hillsborough by something a lot, lot more than the 'minority' that the United-controlled media is trying to pass it off as.

But as I say, I pray we will hammer our (true) handful of miscreants, whilst the overwhelming number of your perpetrators will mean that United are left just issuing their normal, hollow blandishments.

 

[Treble]

The

Maybe you should listen to your own words!

The fact Fergie and Gill are associated to Man Utd is irrelevant. They are both UEFA representatives and they would both have heard both sets of fans chanting. Why not speak up and let UEFA know exactly what was happening?

You are letting club alliance get in the way mate, no one else. I'd be saying exactly the same if it were Kenny or any other Liverpool associate.

No one is finger pointing either. It's simply questioning UEFA's "didn't see our hear anything" stance when they had six representatives (four match officials, Fergie and Gill) present!

If you truly believe it's finger pointing then you are a fool!

Bollox. You haven't even read what Page has written and are trying to defend it. If the fact Fergie and Gill are associated with Man Utd is irrelevant, then why should Fergie and Gill have to prove their "non-bias". That's the only motivation for Page's post, fck all else. That puts paid to everything you've just posted and only confirms my point. The only reason they're being singled out in their position is bcos they're United.

Anyway I can see there's little genuine interest from some to actually have some consensus on here, it really is a waste of my time so I'll leave the few on here to your "woe is me" rhetoric as per usual and hope the others on here that genuinely want both clubs to do something about the actual problem without pointing fingers, or getting involved in pissing contests or cheap shots, to actually manage to talk some sense into the rest of you.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Bollox. You haven't even read what Page has written and are trying to defend it. If the fact Fergie and Gill are associated with Man Utd is irrelevant, then why should Fergie and Gill have to prove their "non-bias". That's the only motivation for Page's post, fck all else. That puts paid to everything you've just posted and only confirms my point. The only reason they're being singled out in their position is bcos they're United.

Anyway I can see there's little genuine interest from some to actually have some consensus on here, it really is a waste of my time so I'll leave the few on here to your "woe is me" rhetoric as per usual and hope the others on here that genuinely want both clubs to do something about the actual problem without pointing fingers, or getting involved in pissing contests or cheap shots, to actually manage to talk some sense into the rest of you.

I want to do something about it - everyone of our fans identified chanting about Munich or fighting to be banned for life. I realise it'll be tens of thousands in the case of United, but are you prepared to say the same?

 

[DirtyFrank]

I want to do something about it - everyone of our fans identified chanting about Munich or fighting to be banned for life. I realise it'll be tens of thousands in the case of United, but are you prepared to say the same?

Tbf he said he did..as did you, very clearly...

Which is why I was confused that he included you in his post.

Look...the fergie thing..on one hand he enjoys the UEFA priveldge but like the rest of UEFA is silent on real issues...

He's also a united board member and has remained silent but then so has the rest of the united board and entire LFC board....that's the point...both clubs are a disgrace on this issue...

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

When an a club and or organisation(Uefa)make a mistake or are guilty of something controversial it would be expected that their employees show a lack of bias and speak up despite the comebacks.

Alex Ferguson(a Uefa coaching ambassador) and David Gill(a Uefa Chief Exec)and both on the board of directors at MUFC were both present at Thursday's game and sitting basically on the halfway line in the directors box, both heard what was sang/chanted and both had the perfect opportunity to show non bias and inform their Uefa observation team that Utd fans sang/chanted about a subject Mr Justice Goldring said would be in contempt of court whilst the inquests into the 96 deaths were still ongoing.

Sad that the cross-club rivalry means a code of silence from the two has developed, hopefully Fergie will make a statement condemning followers of Utd for their part in the disgrace in the coming days.

Both clubs should hold a joint news conference condemning the ****e spouted by the mindless morons and work together with the police to identify and ban for life the perpetrators of hate and instigators of violence.

Bollox. You haven't even read what Page has written and are trying to defend it. If the fact Fergie and Gill are associated with Man Utd is irrelevant, then why should Fergie and Gill have to prove their "non-bias". That's the only motivation for Page's post, fck all else. That puts paid to everything you've just posted and only confirms my point. The only reason they're being singled out in their position is bcos they're United.

Anyway I can see there's little genuine interest from some to actually have some consensus on here, it really is a waste of my time so I'll leave the few on here to your "woe is me" rhetoric as per usual and hope the others on here that genuinely want both clubs to do something about the actual problem without pointing fingers, or getting involved in pissing contests or cheap shots, to actually manage to talk some sense into the rest of you.

You're obviously focusing on the highlighted part off Page's post. I ignored that bit and focused on the fact they are UEFA representatives that could have spoken up.

I wasn't defending Page, you choose to read it that way! I actually think it's wrong to suggest they're showing club loyalty.

Not sure how many times I need to say club alliance does not matter at all. Selective reading on your part and as far as I'm concerned, your responses to me brought club alliance into it but having read back (the highlighted bit) I can see what you've done.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

Way to miss the point mate. Fergie and Gill are part of UEFA. Liverpool don't have anyone that is part of UEFA.

No. ATM, you're the only one trying to score points.

If Liverpool had a UEFA representative he'd have probably named them too. His point was about UEFA and the referee claiming they didn't hear anything and those UEFA representatives acting as a informant (as far as we know, they haven't)

IMO, being a UEFA representative or not, people associated to both clubs should be speaking. Are they resisting because Hillsborough is involved and the current court ruling associated to that disaster?

The

Maybe you should listen to your own words!

The fact Fergie and Gill are associated to Man Utd is irrelevant. They are both UEFA representatives and they would both have heard both sets of fans chanting. Why not speak up and let UEFA know exactly what was happening?

You are letting club alliance get in the way mate, no one else. I'd be saying exactly the same if it were Kenny or any other Liverpool associate.

No one is finger pointing either. It's simply questioning UEFA's "didn't see our hear anything" stance when they had six representatives (four match officials, Fergie and Gill) present!

If you truly believe it's finger pointing then you are a fool!

My three comments regarding this issue. None of them point a finger at either club. They all point out that Fergie and Gill are part of UEFA. That is it. Is that not factual? Could they not speak up as UEFA reps?

I couldn't give a **** which club they are aligned to. I'm not even that bothered they haven't said anything since UEFA have no bollocks anyway.

Feel free to keep reading them as point scoring though. That's definitely something you can direct at me

 

[DirtyFrank]

Here G...stick a poll at the top.

Have the options...

Do you think both clubs and UEFA have bottled it

LFC have bottled it

United have bottled it

UEFA have bottled it.

It's all the other clubs fault....


The fact thing is every single one of us has already picked A

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

Here G...stick a poll at the top.

Have the options...

Do you think both clubs and UEFA have bottled it

LFC have bottled it

United have bottled it

UEFA have bottled it.

It's all the other clubs fault....


The fact thing is every single one of us has already picked A

1,000% "both clubs and UEFA have bottled it" but I'd add the FA too

Edit; and fans!

 

[DirtyFrank]

1,000% "both clubs and UEFA have bottled it" but I'd add the FA too

Yep....it's bizarre that so much effort is put into other abuse but mocking the dead is still seen as unimportant to the "brand"

Seriously...even thinking cynically... Did both our teams sponsors not cringe at hearing that ****e broadcast to the world?

 

[Page_Moss_Kopite]

@Trebs, myself and all other reds on this thread and others have slated the morons associated with our club for their crass and disgusting chants/songs, I was there on Thursday and along with many others NEVER chanted the ****e some did, before, during and after the chanting from our section and the punch-up above I was dodging coins, food and **** knows what else that was thrown at me along with many others and being accused of murder along with many others in our section very loudly by Utd followers in many sections surrounding us and by the Stretford End(or at least that end of the ground), it's my opinion that if I and many others in the ground and including on Radio and TV could hear it then so could those sitting in seats close to the halfway line.
The only reason I can come up with why two figures associated jointly with Utd and Uefa haven't/didn't speak up about it is down to club loyalty, if you can suggest another reason then sound I'll take it into account, it's also just my opinion that if either one of them had spoken up it would have prompted a fairer response from Uefa and prompted somebody from LFC(probably Ayre)to back Gill or Fergie up whilst also making a stance that our club ban any **** doing it for life.

The tribalism runs deep between our clubs and always will do but there has to be a line drawn in the sand when it comes to terrible chants revelling in the deaths associated to/with both clubs I'm sure we'll both agree on.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

@Trebs, myself and all other reds on this thread and others have slated the morons associated with our club for their crass and disgusting chants/songs, I was there on Thursday and along with many others NEVER chanted the ****e some did, before, during and after the chanting from our section and the punch-up above I was dodging coins, food and **** knows what else that was thrown at me along with many others and being accused of murder along with many others in our section very loudly by Utd followers in many sections surrounding us and by the Stretford End(or at least that end of the ground), it's my opinion that if I and many others in the ground and including on Radio and TV could hear it then so could those sitting in seats close to the halfway line.
The only reason I can come up with why two figures associated jointly with Utd and Uefa haven't/didn't speak up about it is down to club loyalty, if you can suggest another reason then sound I'll take it into account, it's also just my opinion that if either one of them had spoken up it would have prompted a fairer response from Uefa and prompted somebody from LFC(probably Ayre)to back Gill or Fergie up whilst also making a stance that our club ban any **** doing it for life.

The tribalism runs deep between our clubs and always will do but there has to be a line drawn in the sand when it comes to terrible chants revelling in the deaths associated to/with both clubs I'm sure we'll both agree on.

I don't agree on the club loyalty point. I don't think either would turn a blind eye for that reason.

As i suggested earlier; Court ruling on discussing Hillsborough?

Maybe one or both have said something and we don't know?

 

[astro]

I'm not convinced of this court ruling excuse.

It didn't stop the police taking down the murderers banner. Why would it stop the clubs applying their own rules about crowd behaviour?

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

I'm not convinced of this court ruling excuse.

It didn't stop the police taking down the murderers banner. Why would it stop the clubs applying their own rules about crowd behaviour?

Why the **** would they leave the banner up ffs

 

[astro]

Why the **** would they leave the banner up ffs

Why is what Man Utd fans chant at OT so special concerning the law?

The court case hasn't stopped papers reporting the chanting both legs, and it didn't stop Man Utd admitting and condemning it the first leg.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

Why is what Man Utd fans chant at OT so special concerning the law?

The court case hasn't stopped papers reporting the chanting both legs, and it didn't stop Man Utd admitting and condemning it the first leg.

You seriously think police leaving a banner up is comparable to authorities not charging thousands of people for chanting?

The court ruling prevents people talking about Hillsborough. The banger was about Hillsborough. They be breaking the court ruling by leaving it up

 

[Tobes]

You seriously think police leaving a banner up is comparable to authorities not charging thousands of people for chanting?

The court ruling prevents people talking about Hillsborough. The banger was about Hillsborough. They be breaking the court ruling by leaving it up

Which banner was about Hillsborough?

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

Which banner was about Hillsborough?

Fair point

 

[astro]

Which banner was about Hillsborough?

The one with the date of the Hillsborough tragedy on it.

 

[DirtyFrank]

Yeah the motorway one had date on it.