Off Topic Rogue One - A Star Wars Story

  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!
Quill said:
Weirdo.
Click to expand...

What's weird about not liking Star Wars? I'd say it's stranger that loads of adults are salivating over watching what was launched as a children's film.

I thought it was **** the first time around, now I'm an adult it hasn't got any better.
 
Quill said:
They don't add anything to the main story running through all the films though really.

The creator of the machete order said it best. http://www.nomachetejuggling.com/2011/11/11/the-star-wars-saga-suggested-viewing-order/


Why Skip Episode I?
Look, I'm not going to sit here and bag on how crappy Episode I is. I'm not even going to try and act like Episode II is better or tell you Episode I ruined my childhood or anything like that. It didn't, it's just a movie that isn't very good.

The reason to skip Episode I isn't that it's bad, it's that it's irrelevant. If you accept my suggestion that Star Wars, the saga, is really about Luke's journey and his decision to accept his hero's burden by saving not only the galaxy from the Empire, but his father from the dark side as well, then you'll find that everything that happens in Episode I is a distraction from that story.

Seriously, think about it for a minute. Name as many things as you can that happen in Episode I and actually help flesh out the story in any subsequent episode. I can only think of one thing, which I'll mention later.

Every character established in Episode I is either killed or removed before it ends (Darth Maul, Qui-Gon, Chancellor Valorum), unimportant (Nute Gunray, Watto), or established better in a later episode (Mace Windu, Darth Sidious). Does it ever matter that Palpatine had an apprentice before Count Dooku? Nope, Darth Maul is killed by the end of Episode I and never referenced again. You may as well just start with the assumption that Dooku was the only apprentice. Does it ever matter that Obi-Wan was being trained by Qui-Gon? Nope, Obi-Wan is well into training Anakin at the start of Episode II, Qui-Gon is completely irrelevant.

Search your feelings, you know it to be true! Episode I doesn't matter at all. You can start the prequels with Episode II and miss absolutely nothing. The opening crawl of Episode II establishes everything you need to know about the prequels: a bunch of systems want to leave the Republic, they are led by Count Dooku, and Senator Amidala is a senator who is going to vote on whether the Republic is going to create an army. Natalie Portman is called Senator Amidala twice in the first 4 minutes of the movie, so there's no question of who's who.

What Gets Removed?
Here's some stuff that you no longer have to see as part of your Star Wars viewing experience, thanks to skipping Episode I.

  • Virtually no Jar-Jar. Jar-Jar has about 5 lines in Episode II, and zero in Episode III.
  • No midichlorians. There is only one reference to midichlorians after Episode I, and in the context it appears to mean something as benign as "DNA."
  • No Jake Lloyd. Sorry Jake, your acting is terrible and I never really wanted to see Darth Vader as a little boy.
  • No confusing Padme/Queen switcheroo. The whole subplot with Padme and her decoy makes absolutely no sense. It's clear that this was just so people could interact with Padme without knowing she was the Queen, but it's incredibly convoluted and pointless.
  • Less confusing master/apprentice relationships. Darth Sidious is training Count Dooku, Obi-Wan is training Anakin. No other trainer/trainee relationships exist to confuse the backstory. Fewer characters to learn about, so the story is more focused.
  • Nothing about trade disputes. The "problem" as of Episode II is that a group of systems want to leave the Republic. This is much easier to understand for a kid than trade disputes.
  • No pod racing. Seriously, who gives a ****? An action sequence for the sake of an action sequence and it goes on forever. A huge number of plot holes surrounding gambling and the subsequent freeing of Anakin are removed as well.
  • No virgin birth. We simply don't know or care who Anakin's father is, and the botched implication that Palpatine knows is gone.
But like I said, booting Episode I isn't merely about pretending a crappy movie doesn't exist. Viewing Episode II immediately after V and Episode III immediately before VI actually tells the story better than including Episode I does. In fact, I think it tells Luke's story better than leaving the prequels out entirely.

Why Does This Work Better?

As I mentioned, this creates a lot of tension after the cliffhanger ending of Episode V. It also uses the original trilogy as a framing device for the prequel trilogy. Vader drops this huge bomb that he's Luke's father, then we spend two movies proving he's telling the truth, then we see how it gets resolved. When Empire first came out, lots of people thought Vader was lying to Luke. It wasn't "proven" true until Obi-Wan confirms it in Jedi, but then it's immediately followed by Obi-Wan's "a certain point of view" justification. Inserting the prequels turns this reveal into a "show, don't tell" situation - we don't just hear Obi-Wan say it, we see it.

With Machete Order, the Star Wars watching experience gets to start with the film that does the best job of establishing the Star Wars universe, Episode IV, and it ends with the most satisfying ending, Episode VI. It also starts the series off with the two strongest films, and allows you to never have to either start or end your viewing experience with a ****ty movie. Two films of Luke's story, two films of Anakin's story, then a single film that intertwines and ends both stories.

Beyond this, Episode I establishes Anakin as a innocent little kid. But Episode II quickly establishes him as impulsive and power-hungry, which keeps his character consistent with eventually becoming Darth Vader. Obi-Wan never really seems to have any control over Anakin, struggling between treating him as a friend (their very first conversation together in Episode II) and treating him as an apprentice (their second conversation, with Padme). Anakin is never a carefree child yelling "yippee", he's a complex teenager nearly boiling over with rage in almost every scene. It makes much more sense for Anakin to have always been this way.

In the opening of Episode II, Padme refers to Anakin as "that little boy I knew on Tatooine." The two of them look approximately the same age in Episode II, so the viewer can naturally conclude that the two of them were friends as children. This completely hides the totally weird age gap between them from Episode I, and lends a lot of believability to the subsequent romance. Scenes in which they fall for each other seem to build on a childhood friendship that we never see but can assume is there. Since their relationship is the eventual reason for Anakin's fall to the dark side, having it be somewhat believable makes a big difference.

Obi-Wan now always has a beard for the entire duration of the series, and Anakin Skywalker always wears black. Since these two characters are played by different actors (and are the only characters in the series with such a distinction), having them look visually consistent does a great deal toward reinforcing they are the same people.
Click to expand...

I would have to disagree with his statement that Star wars is about Lukes journey, its definitely, or at least the first 6 films are, about Anakin/Darth Vader and his redemption.
 
SuitedandBooted said:
I would have to disagree with his statement that Star wars is about Lukes journey, its definitely, or at least the first 6 films are, about Anakin/Darth Vader and his redemption.
Click to expand...

Really it is just the Skywalker's story rather than one specific character.

I think that continues in the new trilogy, as one of those main characters is IMO definitely Luke's kid.
 
Hull City AFC (GLP) said:
What's weird about not liking Star Wars? I'd say it's stranger that loads of adults are salivating over watching what was launched as a children's film.

I thought it was **** the first time around, now I'm an adult it hasn't got any better.
Click to expand...
No you didn't, you're just trying to be different now that's all.
 
SuitedandBooted said:
No you didn't, you're just trying to be different now that's all.
Click to expand...

The point is, it's all about nostalgia. If it had never been made before and A New Hope came out now I wouldnt be interested in the slightest. It's just not a great film for an adult to watch for the first time, but it transports me back to a time when essentially life was ****ing brilliant and I'll get that rush of excitement with the new film.
 
I still don't get this machete order stuff or the Phantom Menace hate. I struggle sometimes with complicated plots in films but I don't find Star Wars confusing at all. It's never been difficult to follow the master/apprentice relationships and I don't know why midichlorians upset people so much either.

Having recently watched them all, I agree that Phantom Menace is one of the less awesome ones (though for me that's just because of the weird dialogue at times, and I still love it), but so is A New Hope, and the newest one is the best in my opinion, which is why I don't like all the prequel hate.
 
PLT said:
I still don't get this machete order stuff or the Phantom Menace hate. I struggle sometimes with complicated plots in films but I don't find Star Wars confusing at all. It's never been difficult to follow the master/apprentice relationships and I don't know why midichlorians upset people so much either.

Having recently watched them all, I agree that Phantom Menace is one of the less awesome ones (though for me that's just because of the weird dialogue at times, and I still love it), but so is A New Hope, and the newest one is the best in my opinion, which is why I don't like all the prequel hate.
Click to expand...

I (almost) agree on that. The Revenge of the Sith is better than both A New Hope and Return of the Jedi, but not Empire Strikes Back.
 
Quill said:
Very possible, particularly in more independent theaters, but reddit isn't to be trusted really.

The only person who I know has seen the movie whose opinion I believe is Kevin Smith, and he said it were ace. Good enough for me, he's not the sort of guy who would say that and not mean it, he loves Star Wars too much.
Click to expand...
Its been correct about a lot of stuff really (the star wars leaks reddit page), actually a ton of stuff, which is why i had to stop reading it because at this point its just to much. There is nothing in any of the trailers that wasnt on that leaks page just as filming had started. There were even tons of photos of the sets as well.
 
ellewoods said:
Its been correct about a lot of stuff really (the star wars leaks reddit page), actually a ton of stuff, which is why i had to stop reading it because at this point its just to much. There is nothing in any of the trailers that wasnt on that leaks page just as filming had started. There were even tons of photos of the sets as well.
Click to expand...

I rarely touch reddit, but when I have I have regretted it.

ellewoods said:
Its 4th best. If you are in that good of a mood once in a while you must do ecstasy.
Click to expand...

I'm never in a good mood. Though I have a feeling I will have one on Wednesday, when it becomes the 5th best film...
 
Quill said:
I rarely touch reddit, but when I have I have regretted it.
Click to expand...
I should say that ton of **** was wrong, like you read it and you thought, thats like Jar Jar wrong. Still a lot of the leaks were very specific, or very short in length of the leak. Such as just a few seconds of a specific scene etc I dont want to go into to much about what kind of leaks there were because that would give things away but there is no doubt that a good amount of it is correct especially when very specific things appeared in the trailers.
 
I love Star Wars, I don't care if people hate it or hate the prequels or hate Lucas for making them, or JarJar is annoying or the story this, the story that! I don't care about machete order, or the one's who ignore 1,2 & 3!
For me it's just the whole thing! So looking forward to seeing the new one & IMO, it's going to smash every movie record ever!
I got into Star Wars because someone gave me 2 Star Wars comics when I was 5 or 6. I knew nothing about it, but it was the whole movie in 2 comics! When I read it, I knew it was something special!
I never saw the movie until a Sunday night on ITV at 7:15! It wasn't a big Christmas Day movie special! I remember it clearly though! My Mum & Dad wanted to go out that night & I would have had to go too, but it rained really hard, so they decided to stay in, so it was The Money Programme on BBC2 until 7:15, then I got to see it!
I was amazed, haven't changed my opinion of anything since!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fettis the striker and PLT
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back