Off Topic Kingston Upon Hull - masterplan

[DMD]

This was about people crossing at Pelicans when the light is on red for pedestrians and green for the motorist.

197
Pelican crossings which go straight across the road are one crossing, even when there is a central island. You MUST wait for pedestrians who are crossing from the other side of the island.
Laws ZPPPCRGD reg 26 & RTRA sect 25(5)

198
Give way to anyone still crossing after the signal for vehicles has changed to green. This advice applies to all crossings.

https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/pedestrian-crossings-191-to-199

Precedence of pedestrians over vehicles at Zebra crossings
25.—(1) Every pedestrian, if he is on the carriageway within the limits of a Zebra crossing, which is not for the time being controlled by a constable in uniform or traffic warden, before any part of a vehicle has entered those limits, shall have precedence within those limits over that vehicle and the driver of the vehicle shall accord such precedence to any such pedestrian.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/2400/regulation/25/made


Irrespective of the law, I prefer to try to show a bit of consideration, rather than trying to live with the thought that my ignorance and impatience had killed or injured someone for the sake of a few seconds.

 

[Barchullona]

But drivers do plough through. Too many people have died here. Thats why its an "accident black spot". Some places just are. I lost a friend at Melton, another "accident blackspot" that took ****ing years to sort out. How many died before they did.
Calling people thick as pig **** divvys is pathetic.

A WOMAN has suffered serious injuries after being hit by a bus at an accident blackspot in Hull city centre.

Shortly before 2pm yesterday, police and paramedics raced to the busy road near Paragon Interchange, the same spot where a pensioner was killed crossing the road two years ago.

Roads were partially closed around Margaret Moxon Way as the woman in her 20s was treated for serious injuries.

She was rushed to Hull Royal Infirmary and was in a serious condition last night.

A police spokesman said: "Police received a call at 2pm today reporting a road traffic collision close to Paragon Interchange in Ferensway.

"A pedestrian and a bus were involved in the collision.

"The pedestrian has sustained what are believed to be serious injuries and has been transported to Hull Royal Infirmary."

The accident, involving a single- decker Stagecoach bus, happened at the pedestrian crossing between Paragon Interchange and St Stephen's shopping centre. Only weeks ago, timers were installed at the crossing as a safety measure to prevent further accidents.

A spokesman for Stagecoach said the company was working with police and helping with their investigations.

Office worker Paul Gilson was heading home to Mappleton Grove, east Hull, when he arrived at the crossing just after the accident.

Mr Gilson, 41, said: "This junction is notorious for accidents and the authorities have put measures in place to try to prevent them from happening. I'm not sure what else can be done.

"The crossing often gets crowded at busy times with people accessing the bus and train stations and the shopping centre.

"The only thing that could possibly be done is to introduce a barrier system for the buses."

In November 2010, pensioner Colin Lyon died from head injuries after being knocked down by a bus on the pedestrian crossing.

A subsequent inquest heard Mr Lyon, 70, failed to look before crossing when the red man signal was showing.

Jack Fisher, 14, was also struck by a bus in nearby Brook Street in April 2008.

Jack, of North Road, west Hull, and two friends had used two crossings in Ferensway before reaching Brook Street where the accident happened.

Following Jack's death, his mother, Colette Scholes, backed the introduction of timers at the crossing in Margaret Moxon Way.

Two "countdown timers" were introduced in August, telling people exactly how long they have to cross the road, counting down the time from the green man to the red man, before buses start to move.

Lindsay Mellor, 36, of west Hull, said more should be done to prevent these accidents.

"It is chaos in this area at busy times," she said.

"The traffic is always heavy and the pedestrian crossings often struggle to cope with the number of people using them.

"The countdown system is a good idea and works well but there needs to be more action taken to help prevent further accidents.

"I think the crossings could be made larger and the speed limit in Ferensway could be reduced."


So a 14 year old lad is a thick as pigshit divvy. As the article says he crossed Ferensway ok but the Brook St crossing is bad as you tend to look right but the buses steam through from your left. Thats where i pulled a woman back who did the same. As Balkan says it wasnt supposed to be used for buses, now it is.

Chazz, there are more crossings in the world than the ones on Ferensway.
Not so long ago
I was waiting to turn right at a T junction. The road separates to 2 lanes. Just as I was about to set off as the light was green a young lass pushed a buggy out oblivious to everything around her with earphones in whilst concentrating on her phone. I was able to stop as I was hardly moving. The cars to the left of me had to slam their brakes on. Her response to someone daring to blast his horn at her was to stop in front of his car, let go of the buggy and stick two fingers up before proceeding on her way. Apart from the factuality less kid kid have been injured due to her stupidity, who can guarantee someone will hit the brake pedal quickly enough or there won't be a brake failure, the first car to brake could have injured its occupants or had someone shunt into the back of them.
If you think people behaving like that are as thick as pig **** then you need to have a word with yourself.

 

[Barchullona]

197
Pelican crossings which go straight across the road are one crossing, even when there is a central island. You MUST wait for pedestrians who are crossing from the other side of the island.
Laws ZPPPCRGD reg 26 & RTRA sect 25(5)

198
Give way to anyone still crossing after the signal for vehicles has changed to green. This advice applies to all crossings.

https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/pedestrian-crossings-191-to-199

Precedence of pedestrians over vehicles at Zebra crossings
25.—(1) Every pedestrian, if he is on the carriageway within the limits of a Zebra crossing, which is not for the time being controlled by a constable in uniform or traffic warden, before any part of a vehicle has entered those limits, shall have precedence within those limits over that vehicle and the driver of the vehicle shall accord such precedence to any such pedestrian.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/2400/regulation/25/made


Irrespective of the law, I prefer to try to show a bit of consideration, rather than trying to live with the thought that my ignorance and impatience had killed or injured someone for the sake of a few seconds.

And your opinion of people who arrogantly step on front of moving vehicles without looking is?

 

[DMD]

Chazz, there are more crossings in the world than the ones on Ferensway.
Not so long ago
I was waiting to turn right at a T junction. The road separates to 2 lanes. Just as I was about to set off as the light was green a young lass pushed a buggy out oblivious to everything around her with earphones in whilst concentrating on her phone. I was able to stop as I was hardly moving. The cars to the left of me had to slam their brakes on. Her response to someone daring to blast his horn at her was to stop in front of his car, let go of the buggy and stick two fingers up before proceeding on her way. Apart from the factuality less kid kid have been injured due to her stupidity, who can guarantee someone will hit the brake pedal quickly enough or there won't be a brake failure, the first car to brake could have injured its occupants or had someone shunt into the back of them.
If you think people behaving like that are as thick as pig **** then you need to have a word with yourself.

As foolish as she surely is, what you describe is poor driving skills.

 

[DMD]

And your opinion of people who arrogantly step on front of moving vehicles without looking is?

That they are not breaking the regulations as you wrongly claimed. The car driver clearly is, as well as being ignorant in both senses of the word.

You feel happy to hit someone with a tonne of metal for being ignorant, I prefer not to.

To get back to the actual topic, I guess this side discussion demonstrates a need for more education on the rules of the road and manners for all road users, and a need for deeper consideration when roads are designed.

 

[originallambrettaman]

197
Pelican crossings which go straight across the road are one crossing, even when there is a central island. You MUST wait for pedestrians who are crossing from the other side of the island.
Laws ZPPPCRGD reg 26 & RTRA sect 25(5)

198
Give way to anyone still crossing after the signal for vehicles has changed to green. This advice applies to all crossings.

https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/pedestrian-crossings-191-to-199

Precedence of pedestrians over vehicles at Zebra crossings
25.—(1) Every pedestrian, if he is on the carriageway within the limits of a Zebra crossing, which is not for the time being controlled by a constable in uniform or traffic warden, before any part of a vehicle has entered those limits, shall have precedence within those limits over that vehicle and the driver of the vehicle shall accord such precedence to any such pedestrian.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/2400/regulation/25/made


Irrespective of the law, I prefer to try to show a bit of consideration, rather than trying to live with the thought that my ignorance and impatience had killed or injured someone for the sake of a few seconds.

None of the things you've posted have anything to do with what was being discussed.

Go find me the one that says if a pedestrian steps onto a crossing when the red man is lit, the driver going through the green light is at fault.

Obviously drivers should be aware when they're approaching a crossing, just as they should be while driving past parked cars in a residential street where kids might run out, but that's got nothing to go with a situation where a driver follows the traffic signals and a pedestrian doesn't.

 

[DMD]

None of the things you've posted have anything to do with what was being discussed.

Go find me the one that says if a pedestrian steps onto a crossing when the red man is lit, the driver going through the green light is at fault.

Obviously drivers should be aware when they're approaching a crossing, just as they should be while driving past cars in a residential street where kids might run out, but that's got nothing to go with a situation where a driver follows the traffic signals and a pedestrian doesn't.

The ones I posted show that. The law also says that a green light doesn't mean go and hitting someone on a pedestrian crossing is a strict liability offence. If you hit someone, you're guilty.

 

[originallambrettaman]

The ones I posted show that. The law also says that a green light doesn't mean go and hitting someone on a pedestrian crossing is a strict liability offence. If you hit someone, you're guilty.

Everything you've posted relates to pelican crossings, where I fully accept that the onus is on the driver to make sure they don't hit anyone, but that's not what we were talking about.

We were discussing traffic lights, where both cars and pedestrians have equal responsibility to follow the respective signals, suggesting drivers are at fault if a pedestrian steps out on a red signal is simply wrong.

 

[Barchullona]

The ones I posted show that. The law also says that a green light doesn't mean go and hitting someone on a pedestrian crossing is a strict liability offence. If you hit someone, you're guilty.

So a pedestrian who decides to walk across the road at a pelican crossing when the little man is red is in the right and the car driver in the wrong? Don't be ridiculous. In a lot of countries the pedestrian would be fined for doing that, the same as they get pulled up for crossing the road anywhere other than a designated crossing place. About time we did that here instead of pandering to idiots and having a situation where people take risks because they can't be arsed to wait a few seconds for the little green man yo appear or hop across the road where they feel like as the effort of walking to a designated crossing point is too much for them.

 

[DMD]

Everything you've posted relates to pelican crossings, where I fully accept that the onus is on the driver to make sure they don't hit anyone, but that's not what we were talking about.

We were discussing traffic lights, where both cars and pedestrians have equal responsibility to follow the respective signals, suggesting drivers are at fault if a pedestrian steps out on a red signal is simply wrong.

Nope, I've mentioned several types of crossing, and the discussion related to the crossings near St Stephens, but irrespective of that, even in the case of traffic lights, the same applies. Cars must cede to other road users.

I prefer to try good manners an patience and avoiding injuring someone with a tonne of metal.

 

[DMD]

So a pedestrian who decides to walk across the road at a pelican crossing when the little man is red is in the right and the car driver in the wrong? Don't be ridiculous. In a lot of countries the pedestrian would be fined for doing that, the same as they get pulled up for crossing the road anywhere other than a designated crossing place. About time we did that here instead of pandering to idiots and having a situation where people take risks because they can't be arsed to wait a few seconds for the little green man yo appear or hop across the road where they feel like as the effort of walking to a designated crossing point is too much for them.

Ridiculous as it may be, your comments on regulations was simply wrong. I've posted bits of some of the laws that relate. It's up to you if you choose to ignore them in favour of your own. I'm sure the court and the victim's family will listen.

I'd be intrigued to see the law that says it's acceptable to run over people because you believe they're stupid.

 

[Chazz Rheinhold]

Nope, I've mentioned several types of crossing, and the discussion related to the crossings near St Stephens, but irrespective of that, even in the case of traffic lights, the same applies. Cars must cede to other road users.

I prefer to try good manners an patience and avoiding injuring someone with a tonne of metal.

Exactly. It should be 15 mile an hour right through the junction.

 

[originallambrettaman]

I'd be intrigued to see the law that says it's acceptable to run over people because you believe they're stupid.

I think that would be a very popular law.

Other than with stupid people, obviously.

 

[Barchullona]

Ridiculous as it may be, your comments on regulations was simply wrong. I've posted bits of some of the laws that relate. It's up to you if you choose to ignore them in favour of your own. I'm sure the court and the victim's family will listen.

I'd be intrigued to see the law that says it's acceptable to run over people because you believe they're stupid.

Unfortunately even in a discussion on more serious matters than football, name changes etc you are reverting to type and making arguments for the sake of it and then making out people have made assertions which they haven't. Maybe someone walking with a red flag in front of cars is the answer? Though the first death of a pedestrian was caused by a car which had a top speed of 5mph.

 

[DMD]

Unfortunately even in a discussion on more serious matters than football, name changes etc you are reverting to type and making arguments for the sake of it and then making out people have made assertions which they haven't. Maybe someone walking with a red flag in front of cars is the answer? Though the first death of a pedestrian was caused by a car which had a top speed of 5mph.

So whose fault is it when they walk across without looking and are hit by a vehicle which has got a green light? Are only drivers supposed to take notice of red lights?
You only have to look at pedestrians at any crossing. Stand and wait until the light is green, no problems. Instead they jig about looking fir a break in traffic and then steam across. Unfortunately do this where traffic is approaching from more than one direction without looking both ways properly and there is chance of disaster. But, hey, it is people's right to do what they want and ignore regulations and then blame everyone else when something goes wrong.

If you never made those assertions, you'd best find out who has your log in details.

Good luck in court.

Edit. I guess you're meaning running over people, that's the conclusion drawn from your argument. If it's the pedestrians fault, the driver is innocent if he runs someone over on a crossing if the light is green. The law says otherwise, and starts from the driver being guilty, and needs to show why he isn't.

 

[NorthFerribyTiger]

Hi all,

I've mentioned before that I've been working on my own masterplan for Hull - as the topic of our city's future often pops up on here, I hope some of the ideas are of interest to you and hope some may even be used in the future.

There are 2 or 3 Hull City related ideas in there too.

After spending years of thinking and creating ideas for the regeneration of Hull - submitting them to Hull City Council, and discussing ideas on numerous forums - I have decided to create my ultimate Kingston Upon Hull masterplan - collating all my ideas into one place. I have spent the last 18 months putting this together during my spare time on weekends - I hope that some may be of use, and would be happy if even just one idea gets used and helps make a difference to Hull's future.

The three main reasons I have created this masterplan are:

1. I have given many ideas to Hull City Council previously with no recognition when they're used - so I'm putting all my ideas out there for everybody to see, and the council to use if they wish to do so.

2. Philanthropy - I doubt I'll ever be in a monetary position to be able to give back to Hull, so I wanted to give in the means of intellectual property.
The city was my great-gran's home and served her well for 101 years - I want to help and improve the city where she was happy for all those years.
Her stories of Hull throughout WWI and WWII were what got me in to the city's history and from that, it's future - which then led onto regeneration ideas.

3. I love the city and generally want to see it thrive and reach its full potential.


I appreciate it's a lot of pages, but feel free to have a read, and discuss.

http://issuu.com/darrenspence/docs/hullregenmasterplan1

The thing that killed the whole idea for me was in the forward....Hull becoming the city capital for East Yorkshire & North Lincolnshire !!

We had that with Humberside......the South Bank want nothing to do with Hull or the North Bank......many parts of the East Riding have a greater affinity with York than they do with Hull.

I'm all in favour of the Northern Powerhouse idea.....but the prospect of Hull being in anyway a capital makes me cringe......

I may have started life in Hull but if there is ever to be a regional powerhouse....then as I'm a Yorkshireman the only regional capital for me can be York...the true capital of the county

 

[NorthFerribyTiger]

Even if the "York/Leeds/Meadowhall" day-trippers could be persuaded to spend in Hull, there's still not enough of them to generate the income those brands need.

But it's not just about the brands. My wife goes to the same brands that are in St Stephens when shes in York or Leeds.
She doesn't go to Hull City Centre because it's depressing.

We only live in Ferriby.....but we choose to shop in York......I can honestly say Hull is never a place we consider for shopping

We have been to Leeds & Sheffield to shop more often than coming into Hull

 

[Rigsby]

To get back to the actual topic,

Well done Dazzar in having your Master Plan featured in the HDM.

It would be great if even just one of your conceptions came to fruition.

 

[NorthFerribyTiger]

1.I disagree - as I've mentioned in the retail section of the masterplan:

The retail units which are empty in Hull are poor and dated to get the big names Hull needs to attract - no modern brand wants a tatty looking store representing them. Hull's retail offering is also in a catch-22 scenario, as the people who do have plenty to spend go to Leeds, Sheffield, Manchester and York to spend their money instead - why?! Because the brands they want aren't in Hull.
.

That has nothing to do with why we choose not to shop in Hull !!

 

[dazzar86]

That has nothing to do with why we choose not to shop in Hull !!

Why do you shop elsewhere?