Nigel's Done One

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roseniorhisgranisfromhull said:
That's just not true. Taylor might have been the best assistant in the game and a genius when it came to spotting the right player but to dismiss Clough's man management abilities is ridiculous really.
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To suggest I have dismissed Clough' s man-management abilities is ridiculous, as I haven't, although to over-egg them is ridiculous and you have; he was okay when combined with Taylor and not when he wasn't, but throughout it all he was a thoroughly arrogant gobshite as a man and as a manager.
 
Fez said:
To suggest I have dismissed Clough' s man-management abilities is ridiculous, as I haven't, although to over-egg them is ridiculous and you have; he was okay when combined with Taylor and not when he wasn't, but throughout it all he was a thoroughly arrogant gobshite as a man and as a manager.
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What abilities of his have I over-egged?

Taylor needed Clough as much as Clough needed Taylor.

You can afford to be arrogant when you achieve as much as he did. Completely disagree that he was a "gobshite" and suspect most would too.
 
roseniorhisgranisfromhull said:
What abilities of his have I over-egged?

Taylor needed Clough as much as Clough needed Taylor.

You can afford to be arrogant when you achieve as much as he did. Completely disagree that he was a "gobshite" and suspect most would too.
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The trouble is that the media have such an impact on what people think of managers.

If Mourinho called someone an ostrich then the entire press conference would be giggling about it.

Likewise with Clough. He talked a lot of **** and people got on with it because he had the success to back it up and the media knew that they had to keep him onside. Shame really.
 
AKCJ said:
The trouble is that the media have such an impact on what people think of managers.

If Mourinho called someone an ostrich then the entire press conference would be giggling about it.

Likewise with Clough. He talked a lot of **** and people got on with it because he had the success to back it up and the media knew that they had to keep him onside. Shame really.
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Are you talking to me punk?

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AKCJ said:
Precisely. Which is why we're in the Premier League.
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Indeed. 22 out of the final 27pts available. Lesta took more than even the champions Chelsea did from the final 9 games.

It is an utter mess and could well prove very very costly in 12 months time. I have no issues with NP as a football manager just as a person. The national media wont be unhappy at this news either.

Maybe time for one Gary Lineker to step forward. ? :emoticon-0102-bigsm
 
The FRENCH TICKLER said:
Indeed. 22 out of the final 27pts available. Lesta took more than even the champions Chelsea did from the final 9 games.

It is an utter mess and could well prove very very costly in 12 months time. I have no issues with NP as a football manager just as a person. The national media wont be unhappy at this news either.

Maybe time for one Gary Lineker to step forward. ? :emoticon-0102-bigsm
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You mean there are several Gary Linekers?
 
In football terms Pearsons a good manager and I'd have him back no problem. His 'negative' tactics were a myth. We played good football under him, but lacked goals due to pretty poor players in attack. His attitude to fans and journalists however is hilarious and ridiculous equally. It doesn't offend me but it's clear he's a proper numpty. He needs to learn to cope with simple inoffensive questions a lot better than he does and I agree with Carmine that he shouldn't blindly defend his son, if that's what has happened
 
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roseniorhisgranisfromhull said:
What abilities of his have I over-egged?

Taylor needed Clough as much as Clough needed Taylor.

You can afford to be arrogant when you achieve as much as he did. Completely disagree that he was a "gobshite" and suspect most would too.
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What ability were we discussing, the clue is there.

Why should being successful give you excuse to be arrogant?

It's an opinion about him being a gobshite and I know many consider him that although the press would view him as a character, if liked him good on you.
 
Fez said:
What ability were we discussing, the clue is there.

Why should being successful give you excuse to be arrogant?

It's an opinion about him being a gobshite and I know many consider him that although the press would view him as a character, if liked him good on you.
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All I've said is you cannot dismiss his man-management abilities, not sure what I've over-egged there.

I like a bit of arrogance sometimes, I assume you were never a fan of Ali either?

Welcome to your opinion of course but I think gobshite suggests he was foolish/incompetent, which he obviously wasn't, perhaps 'brash' would be a more accurate term.
 
roseniorhisgranisfromhull said:
All I've said is you cannot dismiss his man-management abilities, not sure what I've over-egged there.

I like a bit of arrogance sometimes, I assume you were never a fan of Ali either?

Welcome to your opinion of course but I think gobshite suggests he was foolish/incompetent, which he obviously wasn't, perhaps 'brash' would be a more accurate term.
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I wouldn't class Ali as a team leader and that side of Ali was done tongue in cheek, Clough's was not.
Gobshite is what it is, he spoke badly of others and had too big an opinion of himself. Like I said, it's my opinion.
 
Fez said:
I wouldn't class Ali as a team leader and that side of Ali was done tongue in cheek, Clough's was not.
Gobshite is what it is, he spoke badly of others and had too big an opinion of himself. Like I said, it's my opinion.
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Ali was for more damning of others than Clough ever was. Calling Frazier "ugly", a "gorrilla" and in particular, an 'Uncle Tom', the last of which saw many people direct personal attacks/threats on Frazier and his family, I can't recall Clough saying anything which caused someone as much harm as that.

For the record, I love Ali, I'm just pointing out there have been many great men who were arrogant and spoke badly of others, doesn't mean they're just 'gobshites'.
 
roseniorhisgranisfromhull said:
Ali was for more damning of others than Clough ever was. Calling Frazier "ugly", a "gorrilla" and in particular, an 'Uncle Tom', the last of which saw many people direct personal attacks/threats on Frazier and his family, I can't recall Clough saying anything which caused someone as much harm as that.

For the record, I love Ali, I'm just pointing out there have been many great men who were arrogant and spoke badly of others, doesn't mean they're just 'gobshites'.
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I think you are totally missing the nuances and event orchestrated PR; they are apples and oranges.
 
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