I agree. I think Wenger has taken too much of a burden on himself. The next manager needs someone to work with him to get his targets signed.
The Wenger Criticism Thread
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I agree. I think Wenger has taken too much of a burden on himself. The next manager needs someone to work with him to get his targets signed.
Wenger must have had (still have?) residual loyalty because of everything he achieved in the past, a new guy wouldn't. Take on AVB and see how quickly your fans will turn on him.
Add to that Wenger has brought consistent top 4 finishes, and if the new guy doesn't there will be nuclear fallout by gooners I am sure.
Not me. I'm not fussed about finishing 4th. We'll never WIN the CL with AW in charge so being in the CL is irrelevant in that respect. All it is is an annual processing of beating poor teams then getting knocked out to the first good team we play in the knockout stages... woo hoo. And the players we're attracting by being in the CL don't make us play good football any more anyway. so that also is an irrelevant factor. If finishing outside the top 4 introduces a bit of urgency in the club and gets rid of the some of the fair weather fans which will then free up some tickets for others then that would sounds good to me.
Don't care how long a new guy takes to settle and deliver as long as there are signs of...wait for it...progress. There's been no progress for many years under Wenger. Fans want to see positive signs to be encouraged by. Wenger has just presided over Arsenals worst ever start to a PL campaign. I'll be plenty patient with a new manager. This is yet another stupid, hypothetical point being thrown out to cause controversy and rile certain people...again.
Calm down with the accusations, it's a valid point. There's likely to be a period of transition and restructuring and there will almost certainly have to be a period of patience whilst any new manager asserts his style on what will be a complete culture change at Arsenal. The point is that given that people are saying 'we have the money, we should be competing' then how long will fans be patient for ? Look at Utd, they sacked Moyes after one season and now Van Gaal is doing even worse. Listen to the Utd fans up in arms about it all.
Do you honestly think that Arsenal fans will quietly sit back and support a manager that's finishing 5th / 6th whilst we're rebuilding ? How would you measure progress if we have to take a step backwards first ? People pay lip service to the whole mantra of 'give him time' in my opinion, the evidence at Liverpool, Utd, Chelsea and Spurs tells you that fans and chairmen get impatient pretty quickly.
Very true this PISKIE, i was very ready for a decline when Fergie went and was willing to give Moyes the chance to prove himself but by Feb when things looked to be getting worse my faith had gone. I would never have called for Moyes to be sacked but was relieved when he was
Again United seem to be the common example being held up here. We are nothing like United. They had a mediocre squad over achieving due to the best manager ever. Of course a change in manager would bring about decline.
We have a good squad doing squat with a mediocre manager. A manager would have to be monumentally rubbish to not achieve what AW is right now with our squad... Ie. Nothing.
We have a good squad doing squat with a mediocre manager. A manager would have to be monumentally rubbish to not achieve what AW is right now with our squad... Ie. Nothing.
Read my comment again, not only Utd but Liverpool, Spurs, Utd and Chelsea have all changed managers in quick succession recently because they lost patience with the ones that came in to 'improve' things.
Also you are over simplifying to say that a manager would have to be 'monumentally rubbish' to achieve less than Wenger. Saying that people like AVB would do a better job is exactly the kind of mentality that could end up with us appointing managers who aren't good enough and create a spiral of hirings and firings. I'm not opposed to change but it has to be a change for the better, otherwise it will be counter productive.
I don't think we need to undergo a lengthy 'rebuilding' process, just identify the weaknesses in the squad (CM, DM, striker)and strengthen there and make us more flexible in our tactics, especially in the big games. United had a woeful squad when Moyes took over, we wouldn't have.
I agree with most here, we are nothing like Man U. We are a club that is perfect to take over for any new manager. We have a good squad but for a few new additional faces like a DM and CB (generous funds are available). The main core and attacking side of our team is good enough to challenge for high honours. We have a loyal and faithful fanbase that has supported Wenger's domestic barren phase and poor run in the Champions league.
Compared to Man U under Fergie who have consistently won the highest honours for years and just lost the best Premiership manager in current history. He left a less than flattering squad that needed large amounts of investment and clearing out. Being Man U manager was always going to be a very hard task.
Arsenal fans have much lower expectations compared to Man U fans, who have become accustomed to winning the highest honours.
This is pretty much obvious to anyone i thought.
I don't think people are saying that we are in such a poor shape as a squad that we'd need a massive rebuild from a personnel point of view. But the fact that Wenger has not only been here a long time, he's also shaped the whole philosophy of the club, practically acted as a DoF, and a Chief Exec as well as a football manager, as well as building the teams academy and having a strong hand in the building of the stadium. the majority of the backroom staff have been signed in Wenger's time, some because of Wenger.
That is going to have a big impact, that some seem to be underplaying. I'm prepared to give the new guy time, and think we could end up having a few Spurs like seasons before kicking on - the problem is that, without totally destroying our wage structure, we can't go out and offer £350k like Man U to get top players in if we're not in the CL.
And that's the main reason to be in the CL - not the money, not the chance of getting beat every season or the hope you might win it this season (when we're nowhere near), it's that we can attract the best players when we're in it, so that next season we can have a good punt at the league/CL. And to be honest whoever the new manager is and whenever they come in I want them to have the benefit of the CL to attract top players.
That is going to have a big impact, that some seem to be underplaying. I'm prepared to give the new guy time, and think we could end up having a few Spurs like seasons before kicking on - the problem is that, without totally destroying our wage structure, we can't go out and offer £350k like Man U to get top players in if we're not in the CL.
And that's the main reason to be in the CL - not the money, not the chance of getting beat every season or the hope you might win it this season (when we're nowhere near), it's that we can attract the best players when we're in it, so that next season we can have a good punt at the league/CL. And to be honest whoever the new manager is and whenever they come in I want them to have the benefit of the CL to attract top players.
It's good and bad that Wenger has been given so much power. However, one man should never be able to wield so much power as it will only cause problems to the man that is the replacement. Strip Wenger of non-footballing matters like the financial and player buying aspects and let him focus on the coaching side. I agree with some of your points and Piskie's but we really need to be proactive NOW and start changing things. Wenger's no longer the force he once was, this is clear to see, but we need to avoid mistakes made by other clubs when the inevitable replacement comes in.
Bit in bold is so true! And as you say if we get a strong Chief Exec type in who can take all the non-footballing matters out of Wengers hands, while also increasing our links around the footballing world then it'll leave us with a much easier transition when Wenger steps down.
Though I see Wenger being here until the end of his contract...