Malky MacKay Disgraced

[toughmeanyellowandgreen]

ffs drop the moral outrage. I do not discriminate against anybody but I have heard and laughed at jokes about gays, jews, muslims, illegal immigrants, politicians, black people, catholics etc etc etc. In fact I have probably heard a joke about a gay jew who had an affair with a black Tory MP who turned out to be a catholic illegal immigrant. It is called humour and if you stopped people telling jokes about every subject that might offend somebody there would be nothing left. I also use words in private conversation that would offend people if I used them in wider conversation so I wouldn't do it. If the main news of the day was that a famous person had ' come out ' I can think of 10 words that would be used up and down the pubs of this country before ' gay ' but if a gay person was present the language would be different. It might make us all hypocrites but it doesn't make us all homophobic. It is just language used in PRIVATE conversation.

Last thing I'll say on this.

You don't seem to be understanding the point I'm trying to make. This isn't a private context.

If we had 10 new black people start at work and I was emailing a colleague about them and said something along the lines of "they seem alright, shame there aren't a few more white faces amongst them" and that was seen id be sacked on the spot.

 

[NCFC Dorset Branch]

But that's the whole point isn't it - that same comment could be made a thousand times, it's only the fact that it has become public that is causing the issue.

 

[Northamptonncfc]

This has got Vincent Tan phone tap written all over this one, his like a really **** Bond Villain or a Poundland dictator.

There are two sides to every story, but the apologies and dropped legal cases look quite incriminating.

 

[Bath-Canary]

There are some differences in the behaviour here and that which people are talking about essentially these people were hiring and employee if two interviewers at any company in the country had a text conversation like that which was seen by HR they wold be fired on the spot.
Generally the jokes, which are on the edge, are about a general group i.e. Black people and not directed at anyone person like these are or are a shared joke between interracial friendships. Here they tend to be discussing people in a formal business context such in a derogatory tone, comment like "'He's a snake, a gay snake. Not to be trusted" aren't funny in that context they're offensive, and lets face it its not tag funny in the pub, more said for shock factor than because its a clever joke.
people are also saying that they should be entitled to privacy because it was a private conversation, but it was whilst in representation of a company which means it wasn't a private conversation.
so far though what been shown up is however evidence of a bad set of jokes and stupidity about the situation but isn't exactly active bullying or demonstrating actual racist views (they were being racist though). Farah Ibrahim however for me was the more shocking revelation of the day, at best this is bullying at worst it proper directed racism.

http://www.givemesport.com/497078-ibrahim-farah-opens-up-about-malky-mackay-treatment-at-cardiff

I met Malky several times when he played for us and he used to take the time to come to our school to give out certificates and things. I got the impression of a genuinely kind and giving man and am extremely disappointed to be disabused of that view of him.

 

[SUPERNORWICH 23]

This has got Vincent Tan phone tap written all over this one, his like a really **** Bond Villain or a Poundland dictator.

There are two sides to every story, but the apologies and dropped legal cases look quite incriminating.

I hope you meant he's like not his like ?

 

[Northamptonncfc]

I hope you meant he's like not his like ?

The former, sue me.

 

[Canary Rob]

But that's the whole point isn't it - that same comment could be made a thousand times, it's only the fact that it has become public that is causing the issue.

No.

Sorry Dorset, just no.

The fact that it takes going public before becoming an issue for people is exactly the problem. It should be a problem before that (and indeed it was, because it appears he has missed out on several jobs as a result).


It is simply appalling to me that anyone can seek to justify this I'm afraid. Jokes done in a private context, fine - your own home. But if there is even an ounce of truth to these allegations, then these are simply not private. Abusing a guy from Swansea for being Somalian in front of the entire squad is not private or banter. This is racist ABUSE. It's bullying. There's nothing private, let alone excusable about it.

With all due respect, I think the people who are defending this haven't actually read the description of the insults alleged. Read them. They are not banter.

 

[Bath-Canary]

But that's the whole point isn't it - that same comment could be made a thousand times, it's only the fact that it has become public that is causing the issue.

But something becoming public that you thought was private isn't a defence if it reveals so etching you shouldn't have been doing. Pretty much the only private conversations you can have are with you Lawyer and your Preist.

 

[carrabuh]

I don't mind jokes about stereotypes because stereotypes do not develop out of thin air. So I think the jibe about the Jew not wanting money to slip through his fingers and the black Monopoly going to jail might be seen as offensive, I don't think of it as racist (unless the context is advocating all blacks should be sent to jail, my interpretation of it is black people are criminals who naturally end up in jail).

What I don't like is the "not many white faces", "and he's Nigerian" and "who struck me as an independently minded young homo", I think those are really pretty nasty.

 

[NCFC Dorset Branch]

I'm not defending either of them, as it happens. I'm just pointing out that some of what they have supposedly said (and no, I haven't read it all, I'm not that interested in all honesty) is nothing unusual and therefore the only reason it has prompted discussion is because it has been made public. Professionally, yes it is a risk they have taken and the risk has backfired. Morally, well, let he who is without sin.......

 

[gruffnuts]

No.

Sorry Dorset, just no.

The fact that it takes going public before becoming an issue for people is exactly the problem. It should be a problem before that (and indeed it was, because it appears he has missed out on several jobs as a result).


It is simply appalling to me that anyone can seek to justify this I'm afraid. Jokes done in a private context, fine - your own home. But if there is even an ounce of truth to these allegations, then these are simply not private. Abusing a guy from Swansea for being Somalian in front of the entire squad is not private or banter. This is racist ABUSE. It's bullying. There's nothing private, let alone excusable about it.

With all due respect, I think the people who are defending this haven't actually read the description of the insults alleged. Read them. They are not banter.

Well said Rob. Indefensible. Is there a bigger marker for being an absolute stain on humanity than telling or laughing at a racist, sexist or homophobic joke? That and enjoying the atmosphere in a Weatherspoons.

 

[Canary Rob]

I'm not defending either of them, as it happens. I'm just pointing out that some of what they have supposedly said (and no, I haven't read it all, I'm not that interested in all honesty) is nothing unusual and therefore the only reason it has prompted discussion is because it has been made public. Professionally, yes it is a risk they have taken and the risk has backfired. Morally, well, let he who is without sin.......

If you're not that interested, again with due respect, I don't think you should be commenting. It's not about the "some" of the quotes that might be normal in your front living room banter. The problem is the outright aggressive racially/homophobically based abuse. It's the ABUSE. That is the problem. Yes, people say racist/homophobic/sexist things at home, not necessarily even as jokes. But they don't abuse.

So hand on heart I can say when it comes to this sort of abuse I am without sin and will happily cast the first stone

 

[Cruyff's Turn]

There seems to be a slight change of emphasis going on here.I think the point is these texts were meant to be private.They are the kind of things I hear every day in a workplace environment.I think Tan has questions to answer regarding how these all came out.Let's not forget that while we are worrying about this some ****s are out there hacking peoples heads off.Let's have some perspective.

 

[Bath-Canary]

I'm not defending either of them, as it happens. I'm just pointing out that some of what they have supposedly said (and no, I haven't read it all, I'm not that interested in all honesty) is nothing unusual and therefore the only reason it has prompted discussion is because it has been made public. Professionally, yes it is a risk they have taken and the risk has backfired. Morally, well, let he who is without sin.......

Read there comments made by Farah Ibrahim, I'd like to hope you're not saying that its usual.

 

[NCFC Dorset Branch]

Well said Rob. Indefensible. Is there a bigger marker for being an absolute stain on humanity than telling or laughing at a racist, sexist or homophobic joke? That and enjoying the atmosphere in a Weatherspoons.

Never laughed at a racist joke? Never laughed at a sexist joke? Never laughed at a homophobic joke? That would cover, what, about 0.5% of the population I would think.

 

[NCFC Dorset Branch]

There seems to be a slight change of emphasis going on here.I think the point is these texts were meant to be private.They are the kind of things I hear every day in a workplace environment.I think Tan has questions to answer regarding how these all came out.Let's not forget that while we are worrying about this some ****s are out there hacking peoples heads off.Let's have some perspective.

Well said!

 

[Canary Rob]

There seems to be a slight change of emphasis going on here.I think the point is these texts were meant to be private.They are the kind of things I hear every day in a workplace environment.I think Tan has questions to answer regarding how these all came out.Let's not forget that while we are worrying about this some ****s are out there hacking peoples heads off.Let's have some perspective.

Cruyff - read the Farin Ibrahim stuff. This is not private. This is much, much more serious.

 

[Canary Rob]

Well said Rob. Indefensible. Is there a bigger marker for being an absolute stain on humanity than telling or laughing at a racist, sexist or homophobic joke? That and enjoying the atmosphere in a Weatherspoons.

Are you being sarcastic? I know you've got a big problem with me, so it's difficult to tell. Apologies if you're being serious.

Those sorts of jokes are morally distasteful, but in a private context your choices are your own. It's the abuse that is totally unacceptable and, indeed, illegal. I'm surprised people on here defending this don't realise there is a potential for criminal charges.

 

[Cruyff's Turn]

Rob, We may well realise that there is potential for such charges,but just don't agree that they should be made.My perspective is a libertarian one.A lot of people wish to use the law in one direction only.I am not racist,I am on the left actually.

 

[Canary Rob]

Rob, We may well realise that there is potential for such charges,but just don't agree that they should be made.My perspective is a libertarian one.A lot of people wish to use the law in one direction only.I am not racist,I am on the left actually.

So you think someone racially abusing a player in front of the squad shouldn't be charged? To me, I can't comprehend that.

I would definitely not describe a libertarian as "on the left" - quite the opposite in fact, but that's not really a discussion for this thread!

Abuse is intolerable