I don't know how offensive they've supposed to have been but in private conversations it's not unknown for me to jokingly say sexist remarks and certainly the odd quip about homosexuality with the wife and we have a number of homosexual friends (the wife's ex came out) now within the bounds of friendship it's accepted as piss taking. Similar to how some black men refer to themselves with the n word. Obviously haven't seen what's been said but have to bare in mind these were private conversations between two people. We do have freedom of speech in this country so if people want to write messages like that to each other they should be free to do so, providing they never actually carry on like that in the real world. However if there is evidence of them carrying out like this in day to day life then there's a problem
I agree entirely Rich. I am a bit surprised to see all the outrage on here. Perhaps I inhabit a decadent part of the world but I read the contents of some of the texts and thought that I hear far worse than that up the pub each week and certainly far worse in the jokes that tend to do the email circuit
The thing is, these may have been private conversations but they were in a professional context. Legally, if a case in brought surrounding any issues at the club a court can order that these be disclosed. I think part of the problem is that casual racism and homophobia isn't seen as a big deal by some. That's why there still aren't any openly gay footballers. People can hide the word 'banter'.
Seems to me as though it's a case of a couple of people being 'caught' saying the sort of things that millions of people up and down the country say every day of the year.
So the argument here is that it's not that bad because plenty of others say the same or worse everyday? That's really not a defence...
I tend not to even post on threads like this for fear of being lynched by the tidal wave of outrage ,if a stand up comic says things similar to Malky nobody bats an eyelid. I doubt Mackay is racist or homophobic .
Exactly danary. It beggars belief that some people find this even remotely acceptable. Probably why UKIP gained so much support in the recent elections. Discrimination of all types is still prevalent amongst a large majority of the UK's population.
If it's so unacceptable why wasn't Scudamore sacked? Doesn't the FA rule say something along the lines of we don't consider private conversations when dealing with disciplinary matters? Where do you draw the line? A man writes a load of stuff about with sexist, racism etc and it's a book, does that make him those things? Look there's no place for this stuff in civilised society but we have the freedom behind closed doors to be Arseholes if we want to.
All I can say is that I'm neither outraged nor surprised. It just seems to be that it's two blokes having private discussions that have become public.
Well for a start the only "comedian" who would use such crass material is Jim Davidson and he has been ostracized by the mainstream media for good reason. Also, to reaffirm what has already been said, the context in which this was all said is important. He is in a position of influence and by the sounds of the account given by the young black player (in a link posted earlier in the thread), he treats people of different races less well than others to the point of mocking them. This is 100% not acceptable. Your last point about him probably not being racist or homophobic is irrelevant. He has actively gone out of his way to say hurtful things and it has made for an awful experience for those at the receiving end of it. The result is the same whether he is racist or not - he is worthy of condemnation and punishment.
You obviously haven't watched Family Guy ,the stuff they get away with is a little bit naughty but that's ok because it's a cartoon and not to be taken seriously . Jim Davidson Does he still own the Pier at Yarmouth ?
In my experience the people that get most offended by these types of comments live in a mainly white area and have no gay or ethnic friends . I'm bored of this topic now .
Seeing messages without context is hard, but from the original link, it does seem some were sent in a professional capacity (ie scouting players). For me that's when it becomes hard to defend. It's one thing having a private joke in your own time, however crude and distasteful others find it - and meaning nothing by it. For me, discriminatory messages in a work-related conversation are going too far.
ffs drop the moral outrage. I do not discriminate against anybody but I have heard and laughed at jokes about gays, jews, muslims, illegal immigrants, politicians, black people, catholics etc etc etc. In fact I have probably heard a joke about a gay jew who had an affair with a black Tory MP who turned out to be a catholic illegal immigrant. It is called humour and if you stopped people telling jokes about every subject that might offend somebody there would be nothing left. I also use words in private conversation that would offend people if I used them in wider conversation so I wouldn't do it. If the main news of the day was that a famous person had ' come out ' I can think of 10 words that would be used up and down the pubs of this country before ' gay ' but if a gay person was present the language would be different. It might make us all hypocrites but it doesn't make us all homophobic. It is just language used in PRIVATE conversation.
