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Scotch Independence - the countdown

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by stopmeandslapme, Feb 5, 2014.

?

Should Scotland be an Independent Country?

  1. Yes

  2. No

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
Page 286 of 628
  1. Spurf

    Spurf Thread Mover Forum Moderator

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    .
     
    #5701
    Spurf, Aug 14, 2014
  2. Mick

    Mick Probably won't answer PMs Staff Member

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    If you sit down and look at the figures, Government spending is approaching 50% of GDP. The question is what is an acceptable level before it starts killing growth? The darling economist of the Left, John Maynard Keynes stated that Government spending should never go past 25% of GDP in a healthy economy, that was back in the 30's when he was trying to encourage the Government to up it's spending from about 10% of GDP. If you think the UK is too neo-Liberal - what level of state spending are you suggesting in an independent Scotland?

    The Tories are actually struggling to keep it below 50% at the minute, despite all the cuts - the UK is now paying £50 billion a year in interest to keep up the spending - if that interest was not there they could up the NHS budget by nearly 50%. The state's inability to control itself could be literally killing people, and we can't have a reasoned argument on how we fix it without ****s shouting about food banks or just demanding that we tax the baws out of all the rich ****s. How about you don't overspend in the first place (or maybe save a bit of money, like Norway!). It's ok blaming the banks, but Gordon Brown was borrowing £30bn a year during the boom, which hardly left the country in a good position when it all went tits up.

    I couldn't find a chart for the UK (in 60 seconds of Googling), but here is the US figures for the last 100 years which closely mirror the UK. I'm not being a neo-Liberal when I point out that we can't keep growing the state at these levels, I'm being a realist.

    please log in to view this image
     
    #5702
    Mick, Aug 14, 2014
  3. The Anilingus Aficionado

    The Anilingus Aficionado Official POTY 2011, 2014, 2015, 2018 & 2023

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    ^this^
     
    #5703
    The Anilingus Aficionado, Aug 14, 2014
  4. Girvan Loyal 1690

    Girvan Loyal 1690 Nobody's safe now

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    Foodbanks
     
    #5704
    Girvan Loyal 1690, Aug 14, 2014
  5. Girvan Loyal 1690

    Girvan Loyal 1690 Nobody's safe now

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    Only kidding mick <laugh>

    I actually agree with ye
     
    #5705
    Girvan Loyal 1690, Aug 14, 2014
  6. Otto Flayshow

    Otto Flayshow Well-Known Member

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    Sir Cliff was dead against independence.

     
    #5706
    Otto Flayshow, Aug 14, 2014

  7. RAVENBLACK

    RAVENBLACK Well-Known Member

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    Tom Daley's a **** isn't he?
     
    #5707
    RAVENBLACK, Aug 14, 2014
  8. The Anilingus Aficionado

    The Anilingus Aficionado Official POTY 2011, 2014, 2015, 2018 & 2023

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    But wee Margot has rented a house off the state for 30 years, never took up the option to buy, and the subsidy she received for her extra bedrooms that she doesn't need and (wee Stacey and her 4 weans have been on the waiting list for a house for 18 months) had her benefits cut because the State is nearing debt equal to 90% GDP, not because Google dodges a bit of CT, but because the State is grossly overspending.

    Now, depending on who you believe, Scotland will have a defecit, whereas the Tories are trying to close the deficit in the next parliament. For some reason, people think that the State should not act responsibly with THEIR money. If I earn £20k a year and spend £22k in year one, £23k in year two plus the interest on year one's overspend, and this goes on for 20 years, then I'll be ****ed.

    All we're doing is condemning the next generation to our debt legacy and ruining the future of the UK. Quite how showering ****s with benefits will fix this is really perplexing.
     
    #5708
    The Anilingus Aficionado, Aug 14, 2014
  9. The Anilingus Aficionado

    The Anilingus Aficionado Official POTY 2011, 2014, 2015, 2018 & 2023

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    ^^ after the Mod job ^^
     
    #5709
    The Anilingus Aficionado, Aug 14, 2014
  10. Spurf

    Spurf Thread Mover Forum Moderator

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    Mick I am not an economist and I am not going to pretend to be one. I can answer in more general terms. The first thing to say is that Scotland is thre only area of the UK to have a balance of trade surplus, all the rest have a deficit. The question of GDP and spend is a political one as well as an economic one and this is all about priorites. How a country chooses to spend its money is just as important if not more important than how much it spends. Privatisation is justified by saying it saves the state money and improves eficiency and we know that neither is true. If we sell off a profitable industry like British Telecom or British Gas the state not only has to now buy these services it also lose the income it generated. On the other hand state enterprises like steel in the end cost us all a fortune.

    The answer is a mixed economy and projects like the Common Weal are looking at finding new ways to run a capitalist economy and with Hume & Smith Scotland has produced new ideas in the past and there is no reason why thay cannot do it again, it just needs the will to work at it. You cannot ignore the banking crisis repair it and carry on in the same way thinking that everything will be ok. So far we get away with it in the UK because our economy is too important for the West to allow it to fail. This importance is diminished each year as China and India move further forward.

    The UK is one of the oldest democracies in the world but as a result we have one of the most backward systems in the world. We have to change and an Independent Scotland would be the first progressive event in modern British history.
     
    #5710
    Spurf, Aug 14, 2014
  11. Girvan Loyal 1690

    Girvan Loyal 1690 Nobody's safe now

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    am aff ma nut
     
    #5711
    Girvan Loyal 1690, Aug 14, 2014
  12. Mick

    Mick Probably won't answer PMs Staff Member

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    The hole in my logic, and yours is that Scotland has oil. Everywhere else in the world the Government can only tax what people create, but in Scotland it can tax what they dig out of the ground. Scotland might be able to do a Norway and maintain ridiculously high public spending through oil revenue, maybe... but from what I can tell there's not as much oil in Scotland as Norway, and anyway even Norway is starting to bring in market reforms to try diversify its economy, away from its oil dependence.

    You don't need really high levels of state spending to bring about a decent social system either - Singapore's government only spends 17% of GDP yet over 80% of its population live in Social Housing - they also subsidise up to 80% of health care, and have the 2nd most efficient system in the world. If I was starting a new state I'd be more interested in the Singapore model (bar maybe their ridiculously conservative social laws) where they tax what the people create (since they have no natural resources), rather than chucking all the eggs in one big oil basket like Norway.

    Anyway Scotland is currently ****, vote Yes and change it.
     
    #5712
    Mick, Aug 14, 2014
  13. RAVENBLACK

    RAVENBLACK Well-Known Member

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    Stopped reading at this point.

    Idiot.
     
    #5713
    RAVENBLACK, Aug 14, 2014
  14. DevAdvocate

    DevAdvocate Gigging bassist

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    Won't someone think of the children ffs?
     
    #5714
    DevAdvocate, Aug 14, 2014
  15. RAVENBLACK

    RAVENBLACK Well-Known Member

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    TV and Radio celebrities in the 70's did.
     
    #5715
    RAVENBLACK, Aug 14, 2014
  16. Spurf

    Spurf Thread Mover Forum Moderator

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    You should not be calling yourself an idiot. Misguided maybe.
     
    #5716
    Spurf, Aug 14, 2014
  17. The Anilingus Aficionado

    The Anilingus Aficionado Official POTY 2011, 2014, 2015, 2018 & 2023

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    I've always been a fan of Singapore ever since I found out my granda was captured their by the Japs. Interesting that Singapore and Hong Kong, both former British possessions have similar sized populations to Scotland. Even more interesting for me that it was a Scottish civil servant who was creditied with Hong Kong's growth from fishing port to one of the biggest financial centres in the world http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_James_Cowperthwaite. Cowperthwaite advcated free market economics, small state and low tax.

    Tragic for the country that as the land of some of the most celebrated economists in history, we are cursed with a left leaning media brainwashing the idiots into thinking the state should be responsible for everything from houses to jobs, healthcare to pensions.
     
    #5717
    The Anilingus Aficionado, Aug 14, 2014
  18. The Raging Oxter

    The Raging Oxter Well-Known Member

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    Aye, ye cannae move for left-wing media types right enough. TV and papers are full of ****s blaming the poor for all the evils in society but, aye, they're leaf-leaning right enough <doh>
     
    #5718
    The Raging Oxter, Aug 14, 2014
  19. The Anilingus Aficionado

    The Anilingus Aficionado Official POTY 2011, 2014, 2015, 2018 & 2023

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    Stick to sorting Salmond's diet, the big boys are talking.
     
    #5719
    The Anilingus Aficionado, Aug 14, 2014
  20. RAVENBLACK

    RAVENBLACK Well-Known Member

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    For a start the BBC has always been on the loony Left and it always will be.

    Tarquin fail.
     
    #5720
    RAVENBLACK, Aug 14, 2014
Page 286 of 628
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