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Incase its escaped your attention...its a knockout cup comp. Your whole mantra that the best team in the best league should win it is pure bollocks...how did a team that finished ****in 6th in its league win it last year! <laugh>

Bayern are the form team atm, no one is disputing that, and no-one is disputing Barca are off form with uncharacteristic injuries to key players.

When are you going to stop dramatising the state of European football over it.
 
Spurlock said:
Ohh read the script DL...your supposed to bang on about how Chelsea started the demise of this Barca team by scraping past them in last year's final.
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Doesn't quite work, given it was Bayern that they beat. Can't claim to have started Barca's demise by winning the semi but improved Bayern by beating them in the final. DL's arguments are more cogent than that - wrong but cogent <laugh>.
 
notsosmartspur said:
Incase its escaped your attention...its a knockout cup comp. Your whole mantra that the best team in the best league should win it is pure bollocks...how did a team that finished ****in 6th in its league win it last year! <laugh>

Bayern are the form team atm, no one is disputing that, and no-one is disputing Barca are off form with uncharacteristic injuries to key players.

When are you going to stop stop dramatising the state of European football over it.
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Eh? A league doesn't measure quality, it measures consistency. A tournament measures quality. Not a soul would deny that Chelsea weren't (nor anywhere near) the best team in Europe last season but there was a time when Drogba, Lampard, Terry, Cole, Cech and players of that ilk were but never won it partly thanks to scandalous refereeing. Obviously they aren't as good now as they were, but they know how to win and how to play in Europe. No amount of money can buy that kind of experience. You only need to look at United in league competition to know that. United nowhere near as good as previous United sides, but they have experience in winning and culture deeply embedded in the club under Ferguson. The same can be said for Chelsea in cup competition (none moreso than in Europe). Since Abramovich came, Chelsea have easily been the best side in the country in cup competition, albeit United still better in league format.

Lots of average footballers will pick up PL winners medals. The Djimi Traore's of this world are few and far between. For me, CL is the real creme de la creme.
 
District Line said:
Eh? A league doesn't measure quality, it measures consistency. A tournament measures quality. Not a soul would deny that Chelsea weren't (nor anywhere near) the best team in Europe last season but there was a time when Drogba, Lampard, Terry, Cole, Cech and players of that ilk were but never won it partly thanks to scandalous refereeing. Obviously they aren't as good now as they were, but they know how to win and how to play in Europe. No amount of money can buy that kind of experience. You only need to look at United in league competition to know that. United nowhere near as good as previous United sides, but they have experience in winning and culture deeply embedded in the club under Ferguson. The same can be said for Chelsea in cup competition (none moreso than in Europe). Since Abramovich came, Chelsea have easily been the best side in the country in cup competition, albeit United still better in league format.

Lots of average footballers will pick up PL winners medals. The Djimi Traore's of this world are few and far between. For me, CL is the real creme de la creme.
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not for me,i'm afaid.It's the same level as the E/L,it's been devalued since they changed it and included teams that are not the Champions of their domestic league
 
District Line said:
Eh? A league doesn't measure quality, it measures consistency. A tournament measures quality. Not a soul would deny that Chelsea weren't (nor anywhere near) the best team in Europe last season but there was a time when Drogba, Lampard, Terry, Cole, Cech and players of that ilk were but never won it partly thanks to scandalous refereeing. Obviously they aren't as good now as they were, but they know how to win and how to play in Europe. No amount of money can buy that kind of experience. You only need to look at United in league competition to know that. United nowhere near as good as previous United sides, but they have experience in winning and culture deeply embedded in the club under Ferguson. The same can be said for Chelsea in cup competition (none moreso than in Europe). Since Abramovich came, Chelsea have easily been the best side in the country in cup competition, albeit United still better in league format.

Lots of average footballers will pick up PL winners medals. The Djimi Traore's of this world are few and far between. For me, CL is the real creme de la creme.
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Eh? indeed! This whole post is just unrelated drivel, epitomised by the highlight...all that despite United having made more CL finals than you in your stated time period.
 
District Line said:
It's not a **** league, but it's not as strong as the Bundesliga. Top 4 in Bundesliga are comfortably better than the top 4 in Spain or in England.

Whilst Barcelona have won the league, I still consider Real the better team. Same with United and City in England. Both clubs have been undone by dressing room battles with managers and a lack of general motivation with complacency creeping in.
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Yeah, I'd agree with that. You can say that the table doesn't lie, but at this moment in time Real are the better team. Barca, currently just look a shadow of what they once were.

Bayern will find Real a far tougher proposition, should they meet in the final.
 
Quote Originally Posted by District Line View Post
It's not a **** league, but it's not as strong as the Bundesliga. Top 4 in Bundesliga are comfortably better than the top 4 in Spain or in England.
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**** me you change your opinion more than whore changes bedsheets, earlier this season La Liga was streets ahead! Now two German teams have come good its all things Bundesliga...despite not having a CL winner since Dortmund in 97!

<laugh>
 
Bayer Leverkusen and Schalke are in the top 4 in Germany.

And your claim to those sides being better than the top 4 in the PL is, DL???

edit: Schalke are one point ahead of that powerhouse of European football.......

Wait fot it........


SC Freiburg <laugh>
 
SC Freiburg have played in the Uefa Cup twice and did narrowly beat Matador Puchov and then St Gallen one season! Some pedigree.

A pretty similar record to Watford, now you mention it! <laugh> Although Watford did beat the mighty Germans of Kaiserslautern 3-0 at Vicarage Road.
 
notsosmartspur said:
Eh? indeed! This whole post is just unrelated drivel, epitomised by the highlight...all that despite United having made more CL finals than you in your stated time period.
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Read the post against I said cup competition, nowhere did I say just the CL

totsfan said:
not for me,i'm afaid.It's the same level as the E/L,it's been devalued since they changed it and included teams that are not the Champions of their domestic league
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See what you mean but Bayern aren't the Champions in their domestic league, hard to argue they aren't the best side now. A summer tournament consisting of all league winners would be a better alternative but the old format never legislated for significant improvement of some teams

littleDinosaurLuke said:
Chelsea winning the CL as recently as 11 months ago in itself blow DL's theory out of the water and makes any further debate superfluous.
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How?
 
Because, DL, Chelsea have been nowhere title contenders in the last two seasons, yet had enough ability, experience, determination and quality in the side to take on and beat the best in Europe, albeit in a knockout competition where it's how you perform on the day that counts.

Proof that on the day even the team finishing 6th in the PL are a match for anyone in Europe. That is not evidence of a weak league, but a stong one, which is highly competitive and where there are few easy games, unlike the leagues you refer to. Would Freiburg have had even 1% of doing that? Or Real Sociedad? Or Fiorentina? Or any other team in the higher reaches of any other European League?
 
NowsufferinginSpain said:
Yeah, I'd agree with that. You can say that the table doesn't lie, but at this moment in time Real are the better team. Barca, currently just look a shadow of what they once were.

Bayern will find Real a far tougher proposition, should they meet in the final.
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Finally someone with sense <applause>

A league has always been about consistency. I can think of many years where the best team didn't necessarily win the league I.e Newcastle 95/96, Arsenal 02/03, Arsenal 04/05, Chelsea 06/07, Chelsea 07/08, Liverpool 08/09 etc.

If a league was purely about measuring quality there is no way QPR would be joint bottom and Stoke would have seen out 4/5 seasons in the Premier League

notsosmartspur said:
**** me you change your opinion more than whore changes bedsheets, earlier this season La Liga was streets ahead! Now two German teams have come good its all things Bundesliga...despite not having a CL winner since Dortmund in 97!

<laugh>
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So going by your logic the Premier League was the strongest because Chelsea won the CL last season then? <laugh>

littleDinosaurLuke said:
Bayer Leverkusen and Schalke are in the top 4 in Germany.

And your claim to those sides being better than the top 4 in the PL is, DL???

edit: Schalke are one point ahead of that powerhouse of European football.......

Wait fot it........


SC Freiburg <laugh>
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Dortmund v City
City v Dortmund
Arsenal v Schalke
Schalke v Arsenal

Have a re-watch of those 4 games and get back to me. Or maybe a re-run of last years CL final? Or you could compare Dortmund's performances against Real this season to United and City's.

Anyone that thinks the Premier League is even close to the Bundesliga or La Liga is living in cuckooland because the last 3 seasons results and performances against Bundesliga and La Liga suggest otherwise.
 
littleDinosaurLuke said:
Because, DL, Chelsea have been nowhere title contenders in the last two seasons, yet had enough ablility, experience, determination and quality in the side to take on and beat the best in Europe, albeit in a knockout competition where it's how you perform on the day that counts.

Proof that on the day even the team finishing 6th in the PL are a match for anyone in Europe. That is not evidence of a weak league, but a stong one, which is highly competitive and where there are few easy games, unlike the leagues you refer to. Would Freiburg have had even 1% of doing that? Or Real Sociedad? Or Fiorentina? Or any other team in the higher reaches of any other European League?
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Drogba, Cole, Lampard, Terry etc were once top quality players. As I said earlier you can't buy experience. Our players know how to play in Europe and in cup format, United are the same but in league format. Chelsea need to replicate the kind of consistency shown by United and City if they want to challenge, but lack of squad depth due to mismanagement at board level puts us at an immediate disadvantage
 
Your 6th place dross beat the two best teams in those divisions last season DL, so apparently you have more quality, according to your thinking.
Can't say that I agree.

Barca were ****e yesterday, but they were basically playing with 10 men, as Messi clearly wasn't fit.
Add their defensive woes to the mix, the dubiously treated pitch and the two goals that shouldn't have counted and I don't think that the gulf's as big as some people are suggesting.
At least one new centre-back and a new keeper in the summer and they'll be back, unfortunately.
Their manager's health problems are an issue for them, too.
 
Bayern munich are particularly strong as a team presently, but they often are, but they are NEVER a yardstick for the strength of their domestic league because they are usually a class or two above the rest of it. Ditto Barcelona and Real Madrid. Nothing new there. Dortmund are a good side at present because they have an usually good crop of young German players and they are well managed, but they are not exceptional. Again, you can't judge the standard of the rest of the Bundesliga from a club with many of its top players in their side. I don't see how their standing tells us that Spurs (5th in the PL) are inferior to Freiburg (5th in Germany) of whether Eintract Frankfurt are better than Everton, Liverpool or Swansea.

City have not been well prepared or managed in the CL. They have not played to their ability. They have defended poorly, but how can you tell me that a team with Hart, Zabaleta, Kompany, Toure, Silva, Tevez and Aguero in its ranks couldn't be a match for any team on its day?
 
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