My actual experience of being in the stand with notorious italian ultras is as follows. If the ultras don"t like the way things are they physically attack who they do not like. The ineffective security do sweet **** all until they decide to go in very hard with vast numbers.I have been a victim of gas grenades from police in a crowd of 6,000 with about 200 away fans at the far end of the ground.The quarrel was between the ulras and the police. We were then subjected to a second round of grenades before all ****ing hell broke out outside the stadium where the police tried to create a space by driving a 4 wheel drive vehicle in a circle at top speed.Had someone fallen into its path they would prob have been killed.Fortunately it stopped.This was when a lad picked up a sec tion of crash barrier and threw it at the windscreen .The vehicle was then attacked-mainly by non ultras. A few games later a rocket flare(I do not know what it was actually called) was fired from our end at the Sampdoria end.It hit a step on the terrace and burnt a female fan. The kid who fired the flare was handed in to the police by the ultras. At York one boxing day a flare(rocket type-I think they are distress types was fired from Hull fans(on side of pitch and it hit the opposite advertising board.I am convinced it could have killed someone had it hit directly. I agree with Scarbs sentiments BUT you have to consider not everyone is blessed with the nouse to realise the massive difference between a flare and a flare(was it at cardiff that a guy was killed by one whilst sat with his lad?)I stand and sing every game but I am aware of the need to restrain some of the dick heads. In summary the foreign version of ultras are(despite their rhetoric) a group of thuggish bullies seeking a simple solution to difficult problems. Young kids trying to big themselves up will do stupid things with no malicious intent which can cause terrible problems. Standing,flags singing yes.Yob mob rule -no,imo
My actual experience of being in the stand with notorious italian ultras is as follows. If the ultras don"t like the way things are they physically attack who they do not like. The ineffective security do sweet **** all until they decide to go in very hard with vast numbers.I have been a victim of gas grenades from police in a crowd of 6,000 with about 200 away fans at the far end of the ground.The quarrel was between the ulras and the police. We were then subjected to a second round of grenades before all ****ing hell broke out outside the stadium where the police tried to create a space by driving a 4 wheel drive vehicle in a circle at top speed.Had someone fallen into its path they would prob have been killed.Fortunately it stopped.This was when a lad picked up a sec tion of crash barrier and threw it at the windscreen .The vehicle was then attacked-mainly by non ultras. A few games later a rocket flare(I do not know what it was actually called) was fired from our end at the Sampdoria end.It hit a step on the terrace and burnt a female fan. The kid who fired the flare was handed in to the police by the ultras. At York one boxing day a flare(rocket type-I think they are distress types was fired from Hull fans(on side of pitch and it hit the opposite advertising board.I am convinced it could have killed someone had it hit directly. I agree with Scarbs sentiments BUT you have to consider not everyone is blessed with the nouse to realise the massive difference between a flare and a flare(was it at cardiff that a guy was killed by one whilst sat with his lad?)I stand and sing every game but I am aware of the need to restrain some of the dick heads. In summary the foreign version of ultras are(despite their rhetoric) a group of thuggish bullies seeking a simple solution to difficult problems. Young kids trying to big themselves up will do stupid things with no malicious intent which can cause terrible problems. Standing,flags singing yes.Yob mob rule -no,imo
I haven't trawled through the whole thread so sorry if this has been mentioned, but what is the problem here? Surely if flares are commonly used in Europe there is a perfect opportunity for our authorities to guage how dangerous they have proved to be. If they (supposedly) increase the risk of fire, then fire inspectors should test that risk for individual stadiums and issue certificates for flares to be allowed where possible. If many supporters feel their introduction will spoil the matchday experience then allow each club's fans to vote whether they want a ban or partial ban (with flares only allowed in certain areas). IMO the ban on flares seems to be a bit of a knee-jerk reaction (If in doubt ban it) based on presumptions of danger, when in practice they don't seem to be particularly hazardous. Modern stadiums are designed to reduce the threat of fire and you would imagine a more sensible approach would be to allow flares on the terraces but obviously not in the concourses etc. I also wonder whether this ban has little to do with safety, but is actually just an extension of the 'sit down, fold your arms and don't be naughty' policy of stewards and police which is ruining the atmosphere in our grounds.
There are plenty of thugs at Italian football although they are being weeded out by very belated use of cctv and 'tessera' (= membership) schemes. But to think most ultras are thugs and vice versa is well wide of the mark. Going to watch football in Italy has always been very different to here, and what seems 'outrageous' here is met with indifference over there. Many grounds used to have a man with a fire hose in position underneath the 'curva' whose job it was to extinguish the hand-held flares which were lobbed accurately and considerately in his direction when they became too hot to handle/ too burnt down. It was normal and acceptable for decades, even if it caused scorch marks on the running track.
Wow, those of us of a certain age who can remember the 50's and 60's when footie crowds were massive and half carried foot long heavy wooden rattles which were rotated overhead feverishly will no doubt have suffered many a cracked nut from them but that was accepted as part of the 'atmosphere'. Of course that was well before Health and Safety raised it's head...what's my point? haven't a clue, must be all the smacks on the bonce by rattles!
No. If you've spent anytime in Rome, you'll know that many Roma are 'left wing ' , CUCS = Comandos Ultras Curva Sud, and many Lazio are 'right wing', 'Irriducibili'. It's like 'bloods' and 'crips', Rangers and Celtic, Hull and Rovers, Spice Girls and Take That. You don't really think Totti is in favour of neo communist policies do you? Di Canio is mad as a hatter and knows his core audience, but please don't tell me you think he holds any kind of thought-out political viewpoint?
I think he is a complete ****er and would rather he faded into anonimity rather than influence the easily led.If you spend time with Italian fascists even they can see "you never know where things may lead" when you question their tie up with Adolf. I do know there is a difference between what italians such as di canio think about fascism and what we do.I do not imagine the founding fathers of comunism imagined Stalin would kill so many of their own either. Di Canio,Nick Griffin and the EDL guy I hear on the way to the KC.I regard them all as pathetic little numptys but give it a bit more recession and we may all be in for an unpleasant shock.
I think he is a complete ****er and would rather he faded into anonimity rather than influence the easily led.If you spend time with Italian fascists even they can see "you never know where things may lead" when you question their tie up with Adolf. I do know there is a difference between what italians such as di canio think about fascism and what we do.I do not imagine the founding fathers of comunism imagined Stalin would kill so many of their own either. Di Canio,Nick Griffin and the EDL guy I hear on the way to the KC.I regard them all as pathetic little numptys but give it a bit more recession and we may all be in for an unpleasant shock.
As far as I can see, so-called 'Nazi salutes' look identical to salutes of any other bloody kind. Anyway, whatever happened to the freedom to hold and express your own opinion?
Think Benito was the main man for the fascisti. Adolf regarded Benito as a useful fool. Benito was non too astute- but like Adolf and Winnie, a very good orator. I'm not sure the EDL will be winning any seats anywhere anytime soon. No need to worry just yet.
So why, on the video which was posted were there no injuries? Why, with all these supposed effects of smoke inhalation was there no one struggling to breath and being lead choking from the stands? What a set of miserable people, frightened of every little thing and obsessed with health and safety and suspicious of anything involving spontaneity and passion this country is now producing. It is hard to believe that foreigners a few years ago were envious of the atmosphere we created at our games.
ffs seriously some people here are acting like little kids trying to flount the rules .. how about listening to the authorities .. not giving them an excuse for a Yorkshire post article and just chilling out they are doing their job ... its what they are paid to do .... let them do it the article today about our flare loving fan sums it up ... the minority have spoilt it historically for most fans ,,,, and he deserved what he got .. guys .. get out of the 80's and just accept that football now is a family friendly sport and the whole "tribal" thing is a thing of the past
honestly the more I read into some of this **** is that all I see is a bunch of middle aged men and younger guys using this as an excuse to try and "go against the grain" ... ffs grow up and get on with it .. you know the rules .. they wont change .. either put up or shut up
