Is Jol the Problem ?

[roscafre]

We have allways been fortress Fulham at home,even under the past bad managers.
In 2 seasons since Jol has been here we have gone backwards, from our high point.
We constantly hear from forum members how MJ suddenly does not become a bad manager,
But when is enough, not when its to late I hope. For me after the first game in Feb,decisions
should be made,primarily to secure our premiership future.
Because without it our ground developement is in danger of not going ahead.
,

 

[FFC_Madness]

There is no fortress Fulham the last two seasons.

We could have won this today should we got our chances. It is a row results now that we can't be blaming players alone.

MAF will be thinking hard!

 

[Take Me Home Al Fayed]

Jol is paying for the late departure of the D's in the summer...

For anyone who knows anything about football the answer to the question is simple...

NO

 

[WhatDoesWoyWant?]

It's been hard, over the last few months we have, week-by-week been slowly sliding towards the wrong end of the table. We have been worse off at this point of the season going back so I trust that we can sort it! (Hope)

 

[Bandit]

Jol is paying for the late departure of the D's in the summer...

For anyone who knows anything about football the answer to the question is simple...

NO

I don't think Jol is the problem, but he is not absolved from blame. Dempsey made it clear pretty early in the summer that he wanted to go and Dembele's £15m clause always meant he wasn't going to hang around long. Jol should have been better prepared but instead brought in the likes of Richardson, Tavares and Karagounis to replace Murphy, Dembele and Dempsey. No wonder we are in this mess. Before the Southampton game, Jol's defence was 'We have Ruiz out' and now that he's back it's 'We have Diarra out'. No more excuses Jol, a team is more than 11 players. Jol should know that you don't survive in this league with 11 players you can rely on, you need a squad to choose from when injuries/suspensions/poor form occurs.

 

[FFC_Madness]

I don't think Jol is the problem, but he is not absolved from blame. Dempsey made it clear pretty early in the summer that he wanted to go and Dembele's £15m clause always meant he wasn't going to hang around long. Jol should have been better prepared but instead brought in the likes of Richardson, Tavares and Karagounis to replace Murphy, Dembele and Dempsey. No wonder we are in this mess. Before the Southampton game, Jol's defence was 'We have Ruiz out' and now that he's back it's 'We have Diarra out'. No more excuses Jol, a team is more than 11 players. Jol should know that you don't survive in this league with 11 players you can rely on, you need a squad to choose from when injuries/suspensions/poor form occurs.

This!!!!

And may be someone should remind him of the African Nation Cup!! Otherwise this excuse will be short lived!

 

[frogman27]

I may be throwing fuel into the fire here but were the 2 D's not sold at the very last minute, therefore the funds that were made avaialble were not there until the last minute. I apologise if I have got this wrong. I agree that the team performances are down to the whole set up, the players, the manager and the coaches. And I agree that the team is bigger than the first 11. However, what cannot be denied is that Jol went into the season thinking that our midfield would be inclusive of the afore mentionned players. He built a team around that idea, and let's face it if that was our team it would have been sh*t hot. I find it hard to think that Jol would not have got replacements available, it is possible that the players could not be bought in quick enough before the closure of the transfer window. Jol has played his part in our demise but the players have to take alot of the responsibility. As for signing Diarra, he was not playing for Mali at the time of us signing him up. He returned off the back of some good displays for us. Cannot point the finger at Jol for that one. Jol has yet to be given the opportunity to make his squad, he needs to be given the funds.

COYW

 

[Bandit]

Some interesting words from Villa's manager Paul Lambert, whose side are in about as much trouble as we are

Lambert refused to divulge what he said to his players after the Wigan defeat, but insisted that he was solely to blame for the club's poor run.

"It is private what I said [after the final whistle]," he added. "I can't fault the lads for effort. It is my responsibility. I am the manager so I take responsibility."

Not once have I heard Jol come out after a poor performance/result and admit responsibility for such outcomes. It always seems to be players didn't turn up/injuries/suspensions/unlucky etc. There have been some glaring errors from Jol that he needs to take responsibility for. He claimed Richardson had been poor so far as he was lacking fitness, if he wasn't fully match fit, then why did Jol select him? Surely we have others in CM that could have done a job, aka Kasami?

 

[Cottager58]

To add to froggy's fuel, Jol still hasn't yet agreed to an extension of his contract beyond the summer. The January transfer window and what he achieves (or is allowed to achieve) may be a defining point for him, and the Club.

 

[FFC_Madness]

To add to froggy's fuel, Jol still hasn't yet agreed to an extension of his contract beyond the summer. The January transfer window and what he achieves (or is allowed to achieve) may be a defining point for him, and the Club.

If that is true then it's not difficult to see why we are in a mess... Is he waiting to see the Club's commitment on funds for him to spend?

 

[Surlyc]

I find it hard to think that Jol would not have got replacements available, it is possible that the players could not be bought in quick enough before the closure of the transfer window. Jol has played his part in our demise but the players have to take alot of the responsibility.

Have to agree with this.

We were on the verge of signing Boateng, before his club decided to hike our the transfer fee as they realised we were desperate and had the Dembele money. It's hard to fault the manager (the same thing happened with Chadli), as we would not have had the problem if Mo had invested his own money up front. Spurs, and the transfer window, screwed us over.

I don't often agree with Ros, but the first few weeks of February will be key for us. Jol will have had the transfer window and we will see if the club is prepared to invest. We have to build on the performance yesterday with some new talent and hope our team spirit pulls us together for the rest of the season.

 

[Fulhaman]

The really frustrating thing for me is that we appear to be going backwards whilst teams like Norwich, WBA and Swansea are going forwards. On paper the squads are all fairly similar (with the exception of Berbs, who is a class apart of anyone in any team apart from the top 4) and yet our players just never seem to be the quality of those signed by teams like those mentioned above. For instance we have not recently signed a Michu, or a Odemwingie. Someone who cost relatively little yet actually is rather good and adapts instantly. Ruiz, who is now playing very well, has taken 18 months to get there - Michu took about 30 minutes.

For me this points to problems with our scouting system - and also our ability to assess the quality and potential of the players we are looking to sign. Take Tavares - what was the point? What makes anyone think he's premiership quality? What did anyone see in him? Why sign him if you never, ever play him.

We should be looking to build year on year and yet the most we do is stand still or (quite often) slip backwards. I don't think we will be relegated and I don't think we should consider getting rid of Jol but our long term plans need looking at, our scouting system needs looking, our youth policy needs looking at (why are the players that we bring through never good enough for the 1st team), and our player quality department needs looking at. I'm not saying we should be looking at RVP, but players on a par with Pilkington or Bassong or Dyer or Rangel or Brunt or Dorrans or Ridgewell - not stars or world beaters just solid dependable players who are probably a cut above Sidwell or Baird or Riise or Senderos.

 

[FFC_Madness]

These teams (Swansea, WBA, etc.) play a 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 system which gets the job done and covers the mistakes or gaps.

Jol and Martinez at Wigan look to play more entertaining football which can't be achieved with the players they have.

The extreme is Stoke which they play using rugby style football but get the results!

 

[Bidley]

Deary me, it's a good job we don't nearly always have a bad spell like this, at the same point in every season (many times actually being worse off) yet still manage to recover. Oh wait...

 

[Fulhaman]

Deary me, it's a good job we don't nearly always have a bad spell like this, at the same point in every season (many times actually being worse off) yet still manage to recover. Oh wait...

Yeah, we do, and as I said, I don't think we will go down, however, the point is that whilst the other teams also have dips, they tend to be much shorter - WBA lost 3 or 4 and then bounced back, same with Swansea, Norwich got off to a slow start but haven't looked back since about mid-November, and put 4 wins together out of 6 games and we will bounce up the table.

If we were progressing we would probably still be going through a dip but would be coming out the other side much quicker.

The lack of progress is frustrating.

 

[Bandit]

Deary me, it's a good job we don't nearly always have a bad spell like this, at the same point in every season (many times actually being worse off) yet still manage to recover. Oh wait...

Nobody is calling for Jol's head, unlike Hughes after the WH game. By the sound of your post, you must be delighted to have a record of 1 win in 12 games?

 

[FFC_Madness]

Would be interesting to listen to people's thought once more.

For me he is increasingly becoming the problem. Our form is appalling! We have not bounced back. For those who were at the cup game we were outplayed in parts of the game by a championship team. Against WBA is was a bleep and back to usual as the last 12-13 games.


Is that the reason the club have not offered a contract extension or money for new transfers? Regarding money for transfers maybe the club is not convinced of his judgement yet. Most of them have been poor..

 

[Surlyc]

Is that the reason the club have not offered a contract extension or money for new transfers? Regarding money for transfers maybe the club is not convinced of his judgement yet. Most of them have been poor..

I don't agree that Jol's signings have been poor at all.

Jol's signings:

Good (7): John Arne Riise, Bryan Ruiz, Pavel Pogrebnyak, Mahamadou Diarra, Sascha Riether, Dimitar Berbatov, Giorgos Karagounis
Jury is still out (5): Csaba Somogyi, Mladen Petric, Hugo Rodallega, Kieran Richardson, Ashkan Dejagah
Poor (1): Orlando Sá
For the future (4): Dan Burn, Tom Donegan, Ryan Williams, Pajtim Kasami
Other: Marcel Gecov (we basically recouped what we spent), Zdeněk Grygera (looked good before injury ended his career with us)

I can only assume that you think Petric, Rodallega, Richardson and Dejagah are poor. Even if they have, that's still only 50% of the signings and at the combined cost of £4m. So unless you think Ruiz is the poor player, your argument doesn't seem to me to have many legs.

 

[FFC_Madness]

I don't agree that Jol's signings have been poor at all.

Jol's signings:

Good (7): John Arne Riise, Bryan Ruiz, Pavel Pogrebnyak, Mahamadou Diarra, Sascha Riether, Dimitar Berbatov, Giorgos Karagounis
Jury is still out (5): Csaba Somogyi, Mladen Petric, Hugo Rodallega, Kieran Richardson, Ashkan Dejagah
Poor (1): Orlando Sá
For the future (4): Dan Burn, Tom Donegan, Ryan Williams, Pajtim Kasami
Other: Marcel Gecov (we basically recouped what we spent), Zdeněk Grygera (looked good before injury ended his career with us)

I can only assume that you think Petric, Rodallega, Richardson and Dejagah are poor. Even if they have, that's still only 50% of the signings and at the combined cost of £4m. So unless you think Ruiz is the poor player, your argument doesn't seem to me to have many legs.

Ruiz, Diarra and even Berba have not yet delivered to the expectations... Jury is still out for all 3...

 

[Cottager58]

I don't agree that Jol's signings have been poor at all.

Jol's signings:

Good (7): John Arne Riise, Bryan Ruiz, Pavel Pogrebnyak, Mahamadou Diarra, Sascha Riether, Dimitar Berbatov, Giorgos Karagounis
Jury is still out (5): Csaba Somogyi, Mladen Petric, Hugo Rodallega, Kieran Richardson, Ashkan Dejagah
Poor (1): Orlando Sá
For the future (4): Dan Burn, Tom Donegan, Ryan Williams, Pajtim Kasami
Other: Marcel Gecov (we basically recouped what we spent), Zdeněk Grygera (looked good before injury ended his career with us)

I can only assume that you think Petric, Rodallega, Richardson and Dejagah are poor. Even if they have, that's still only 50% of the signings and at the combined cost of £4m. So unless you think Ruiz is the poor player, your argument doesn't seem to me to have many legs.

Jol's first four signings were; Symogyi, Riise, Gecov and Kasami at a combined total of £5.7m. I don't think they have proved to be a very good return on money.


Separately, the Sundays are saying that Shalke are looking at him as their new manager :

"Schalke are keen to make Martin Jol their next manager, writes the Sunday People. The German club are looking for a successor to sacked head coach Huub Stevens – and have put youth team boss Jens Keller in charge until the end of the season. They are taking their time to draw up a list of candidates but Fulham boss Jol is high on their agenda.

Jol, 56, has coached in Germany before, enjoying a successful year with Hamburg before moving on to boss Dutch giants Ajax. Champions League outfit Schalke, who face Galatasaray in the knockout stages next month, believe Jol could be tempted to take on the challenge of leading them forward from the end of the season.

Jol has been in charge of Fulham since 2011 and the club told him in November they would take up an option to extend his contract from the end of this campaign and keep him for an extra year. But Schalke are expected to make an approach to discover how much it would cost to take him to the Bundesliga – if he is interested."