Match Day Thread Sunderland v Hull City

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City win?

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Cityzen said:
And us having a crowd of 24,000 against them 2 or 3 years later in which 16,000 of them were from Sunderland. Their attendances have never dipped to the levels ours have. https://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/league/sund.htm

I know what you, and some others did. How many of these commenting were taking the time and effort to produce the excellent fanzines we had when the club was a laughing stock? (Came across a couple of them not long back. One particular contributor was prolific under a number of pen names,<laugh>)
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Fixed that for you <laugh>
 
Drew said:
Some of the players you mentioned weren't an absolute disaster though.

Sayyadmanesh had some decent games and his work rate was high - I can see why we signed him but ultimately he didn't fit into the team. He's not having a bad time of it in Belgium last time I looked?
Pelkas was OK for a season but didn't set the world alight - probably was an image signing but he was OK.
Sinik....
Tetteh looked good in flashes when not injured - again I can see why we signed him.
Traore had some decent games - as a free transfer it wasn't a bad option.
I have no idea what went wrong with Omur this season - but last season he was being lauded as a great buy.

Players from the Turkish league are clearly going to get some extra scrutiny but I do think we're quick to judge before we've seen them play. I'm not going to say the strategy has worked brilliantly because clearly we've also got a huge history of injury issues coming from that league - but I do think the standard of player being 'poor' has been overplayed a bit.
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But I guess those players while not being terrible players from a quality perspective were incredibly injury prone, so it seemed that players were either not up to the level or just constantly injured. Signing Lincoln off the back of an ACL and a bit of time spent in Brazil was understandably met with skepticism.
 
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SydneyTiger14 said:
But I guess those players while not being terrible players from a quality perspective were incredibly injury prone, so it seemed that players were either not up to the level or just constantly injured. Signing Lincoln off the back of an ACL and a bit of time spent in Brazil was understandably met with skepticism.
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Hahaha. Nice deflection. <laugh>
 
My initial post referred to the players not being robust enough as one of the reasons we stopped recruiting as much from there. That's not a 'deflection'. My post was about those players not being a success for one reason or another.
 
SydneyTiger14 said:
But I guess those players while not being terrible players from a quality perspective were incredibly injury prone, so it seemed that players were either not up to the level or just constantly injured. Signing Lincoln off the back of an ACL and a bit of time spent in Brazil was understandably met with skepticism.
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Lincoln didn’t have “a bit of time” in Brazil, he played an entire season as a first team regular. If you think we shouldn’t sign players who have had long term knee injuries in their careers you are narrowing the pool considerably. No club would think that way, I suspect.
 
Not including Lincoln and Pedro, how many of Turkish league signings are still here now? Zero

Tells you everything you need to know
 
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AlRawdah said:
Lincoln didn’t have “a bit of time” in Brazil, he played an entire season as a first team regular. If you think we shouldn’t sign players who have had long term knee injuries in their careers you are narrowing the pool considerably. No club would think that way, I suspect.
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I didn't say we shouldn't sign players post ACLs, I'm saying it contributed to the skepticism after the injury histories of a lot of the players we signed from Turkey.

28 games is just over half a Championship season. I don't think referring to that as 'a bit of time' is that inaccurate. Of those 28 he only started 19 by the way.
 
originallambrettaman said:
Sinik

Omur’s still ours as things stand.

And Pandur was definitely one of his.
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Sinik is permanelty crocked and Omur has been loaned out and very likely on his way out.

As TB said, tells you everything you need to know.

Pandur just about the only success story out of how many? Think the notion of flinging **** at a wall and seeing what sticks, or a broken clock come to mind.
 
SydneyTiger14 said:
I didn't say we shouldn't sign players post ACLs, I'm saying it contributed to the skepticism after the injury histories of a lot of the players we signed from Turkey.
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I don’t recall many of them having notable “injury histories” when they signed - Traore yes, but the others had had pretty typical careers. Clearly a few have had notable injury issues since they signed, but none of us can predict the future.
 
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AlRawdah said:
I don’t recall many of them having notable “injury histories” when they signed - Traore yes, but the others had had pretty typical careers. Clearly a few have had notable injury issues since they signed, but none of us can predict the future.
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No, but we can predict that players from the Turkish league are not necessarily robust enough to be thrown into a Championship season without the proper conditioning, based on the fact that we have found time and again. Which was the point I began with.

SydneyTiger14 said:
It also is no coincidence that last season we saw far fewer - in fact only one - player sourced from Turkey as we clearly identified issues with that element of the recruitment strategy. So if the club identified that it was not the way to go, whether due to a lack of robustness of the players, or difficulty in adapting to the Championship, I don't think it's xenophobic, or irrational or extreme or whatever word you want to use for supporters to come to the same conclusion
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There will always be exceptions, although even in someone like Tufan's case he had spent a season on loan at Watford before coming in. I can't think of any player we signed direct from a Turkish club who contributed much of note. If Lincoln proves a quality addition and we sign him permanently, then brilliant and great for us as we're bringing in a good player. No one's unhappy with that. Just explaining why there was a healthy dose of skepticism based on past results.
 
SydneyTiger14 said:
No, but we can predict that players from the Turkish league are not necessarily robust enough to be thrown into a Championship season without the proper conditioning, based on the fact that we have found time and again. Which was the point I began with.
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I think you are looking at this the wrong way. The ones that have had injuries while with us are the exceptions (Sinik, Allahyar for a while, Tetteh), most of the others have had perfectly normal injury records. Tufan and Omur were rarely injured, Oscar had one serious injury but was otherwise robust, Traore was reliable once he got over his training ground injury. Are you implying there is something inherently injury prone about the players we choose to sign from Turkey? If so, it doesn’t stand up in my view.
 
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SydneyTiger14 said:
There will always be exceptions, although even in someone like Tufan's case he had spent a season on loan at Watford before coming in. I can't think of any player we signed direct from a Turkish club who contributed much of note. If Lincoln proves a quality addition and we sign him permanently, then brilliant and great for us as we're bringing in a good player. No one's unhappy with that. Just explaining why there was a healthy dose of skepticism based on past results.
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Are you now saying that most of the players we sign from Turkey are just no good? That clearly doesn’t stand up too, I can’t see that the hit rate in that cohort is any different to our wider pool of signings. Is it?
 
AlRawdah said:
I think you are looking at this the wrong way. The ones that have had injuries while with us are the exceptions (Sinik, Allahyar for a while, Tetteh), most of the others have had perfectly normal injury records. Tufan and Omur were rarely injured, Oscar had one serious injury but was otherwise robust, Traore was reliable once he got over his training ground injury. Are you implying there is something inherently injury prone about the players we choose to sign from Turkey? If so, it doesn’t stand up in my view.
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Oscar was signed from Portugal..

I'm not implying anything, I'm saying the vast majority of players we signed from Turkish were rubbish and left soon after with tufan the only exception.
 
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AlRawdah said:
Are you now saying that most of the players we sign from Turkey are just no good? That clearly doesn’t stand up too, I can’t see that the hit rate in that cohort is any different to our wider pool of signings. Is it?
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I'm not "now" saying anything. That's a quote from my original post.
 
I’m in again.

You spent several posts saying the players in question were injury prone when signed. They aren’t, appreciably, that’s clear.

You then switched to saying “the vast majority” are rubbish. They aren’t. You offer no evidence, just post uppity passive aggressive “that’s what I said” messages.

I don’t even think you know you are doing it. What a very odd situation.

I’m out again.
 
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