HOW'S ARNE'S SLOT DOING

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Clark is the only one of our best prospects whose been sold and reputedly for good money .

I think it's a good price myself.

I think if I were comparing just his transfer I see a players who probably didn't do as much as a Harry Wilson in the u21s but a player who was never yet loaned out, a player with over 10 appearances by 19

So was he the very best prospect? Maybe not.

Was he held close by klopp and favoured, probably yes.

Would he suit slot game plan. Probably not.

I think we are seeing a player who has been well tapped up by linders who the second he was appointed referred to Clark as a player he'd like. We could be seeing the end point of a plan by our former assistant where the player himself wasn't adverse to the move.

Like it's only 2021 when he was given a long term contract so we might have thought in 2024 that he won't sign another and said let's cash in.


But Clark is one example SO FAR.

It's the big picture we need to study.

Carvalho even isn't enough to go on. I'd have sold him for that.

Same for Koumetio. I'd have move him on.

Same for Williams. The time was well passed.

No this is more about the perceived next generation players we ought to be looking to at least get to carvalhos level. Gordon, doak, McConnell, etc etc. If we are farming them.out before they are ready or just now pushing them aside to focus on senior players then I'm afraid we've appointed the wrong man as technical director, the wrong man as head coach and the wrong elite development coach.

No one decision will be a clear cut case. The pattern thst emerges will tell us more.

They've got koumas onto a long term deal and immediately loaned him out to Swansea. They tried to send danns out. other barely 18. Its a fine balance between getting them experience and too soon there.

Gordon is barely back from long term injury. His loan is risky.

if we see bajcetic go as well, doak sold, Then the pattern starts to emerge.

Nyoni looks a player right? That's great. What happens he we don't see him at all this season?

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

Can't believe I'm saying it but I agree with all of that.

Optics is a word that's been around a good while and like it or not, it has crept in now when talking about football and yes, the optics of selling off some of your best youngsters isn't good. I've been reading around other LFC fan sites and there's a lot of disbelief at Clark being shipped out as he's regarded as one of our best prospects. Personally I don't know because I don't watch the academy games. Obviously a very small number actually make it but he's being spoken about as one of your "1%".

Selling off some of our best youngsters…. We’ve agreed a deal with one of them to go play for our old assistant manager - a player with a handful of starts and competition behind about 4 other first team players.

Think it’s a bit early to be saying we’re selling off even ‘some’ of them.

 

[johnsonsbaby]

Selling off some of our best youngsters…. We’ve agreed a deal with one of them to go play for our old assistant manager - a player with a handful of starts and competition behind about 4 other first team players.

Think it’s a bit early to be saying we’re selling off even ‘some’ of them.

I know you take things very literally but even you can see that the alternative to saying some of our best youngsters, when talking about the first to be sold, is selling off our best youngster which Clark isn't.

It's 'too early' to be talking about it when it's mere speculation, when the first one has actually been sold, it ceases to be 'too early".

Out of the whole academy, we have a small clutch of players who are being talked about as really solid first team potentials. These are the ones who are being sold in Clark's case or talked about being sold.

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

I know you take things very literally but even you can see that the alternative to saying some of our best youngsters, when talking about the first to be sold, is selling off our best youngster which Clark isn't.

It's 'too early' to be talking about it when it's mere speculation, when the first one has actually been sold, it ceases to be 'too early".

Out of the whole academy, we have a small clutch of players who are being talked about as really solid first team potentials. These are the ones who are being sold in Clark's case or talked about being sold.

Koumetio was no where near first team.

Clark had a few games but £10m plus sell on is far too good for someone that’s 4/5th choice.

Carvahlo - again. Potential squad player but £30m for squad player who again would have been 4th/5th choice isn’t a hard sell - especially when he’s been on 2 loans since we signed him

Vd Berg - again similar to carvahlo. Maybe a squad player but he also wants to play and we’ve set a fair price. He’s 22 and would be 6th choice CB.

Otherwise we haven’t actually sold any youth players. Doak is only other one there are rumours about being sold which would be disappointing as would rather see him get a good loan to see how he does for a year but again, every youth player will have a value and offers too good to turn down have to be accepted.

 

[saintanton]

I know you take things very literally but even you can see that the alternative to saying some of our best youngsters, when talking about the first to be sold, is selling off our best youngster which Clark isn't.

It's 'too early' to be talking about it when it's mere speculation, when the first one has actually been sold, it ceases to be 'too early".

Out of the whole academy, we have a small clutch of players who are being talked about as really solid first team potentials. These are the ones who are being sold in Clark's case or talked about being sold.

In a different context you've agreed that players should want to play, rather than be satisfied raking it in on the bench. Surely that's relevant here?
Rather than keep players who aren't likely to be part of the immediate plan, holding them back in their careers, let them go and play elsewhere. It's surely better for them as well as the club - we don't need a squad stuffed to the gunwales with potential but no way to let it be expressed.
Perhaps we might disagree with which particular players should go, but it isn't our decision to make.

 

[johnsonsbaby]

In a different context you've agreed that players should want to play, rather than be satisfied raking it in on the bench. Surely that's relevant here?
Rather than keep players who aren't likely to be part of the immediate plan, holding them back in their careers, let them go and play elsewhere. It's surely better for them as well as the club - we don't need a squad stuffed to the gunwales with potential but no way to let it be expressed.
Perhaps we might disagree with which particular players should go, but it isn't our decision to make.

I think if the player himself (Clark) is unhappy with, let's guess, what's been put to him in terms of where the new management see him, then we maybe should be a bit wary. That's pretty much all I've said about the youngsters who are seen by a lot of fans and previous management, by the fact Pep wants him in his first team, as being just about ready for the step up but now not being given a fair shake.

Yes Slot is a different manager and will inevitably see things differently in terms of which way he wants the team to go and absolutely will have his own opinions on individuals. You wouldn't expect the new man to carry on exactly the same as the old one. We have to progress. My opinion is that selling one of the best prospects isn't ideal. We've also talked about how he has to win the fans over. Reading further than this forum, there is a core of fans, including those who have credible websites, who are concerned.

It's just my opinion. Don't read something into what I'm saying that isn't there. (Not you personally). I'm not saying none of our youngsters should ever be sold. I've made a clear distinction between the very small number who are regarded as having a real chance of breaking through and the rest, who, with the best will in the world, probably won't make it with us but at another club.

 

[saintanton]

I think if the player himself (Clark) is unhappy with, let's guess, what's been put to him in terms of where the new management see him, then we maybe should be a bit wary. That's pretty much all I've said about the youngsters who are seen by a lot of fans and previous management, by the fact Pep wants him in his first team, as being just about ready for the step up but now not being given a fair shake.

Yes Slot is a different manager and will inevitably see things differently in terms of which way he wants the team to go and absolutely will have his own opinions on individuals. You wouldn't expect the new man to carry on exactly the same as the old one. We have to progress. My opinion is that selling one of the best prospects isn't ideal. We've also talked about how he has to win the fans over. Reading further than this forum, there is a core of fans, including those who have credible websites, who are concerned.

It's just my opinion. Don't read something into what I'm saying that isn't there. (Not you personally). I'm not saying none of our youngsters should ever be sold. I've made a clear distinction between the very small number who are regarded as having a real chance of breaking through and the rest, who, with the best will in the world, probably won't make it with us but at another club.

I don't think any of us are in disagreement over the basic principles, just the details.
Like most top clubs these days, we're a production line of young footballers. They benefit from the best facilities and some top level coaching to start them off on their careers. Only a very small number will make it for us or another team of a similar level, but they all have the chance to realise their own potential.
And they need to get out there and do it.
As fans we will differ over who we should keep, in the same way we differ over the senior players. It's inevitable.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I believe that a value decision is being made.

Let's look at this scenario

UCL 8 games coming.
Unlimited numbers of b list players can play.

Can Clark play? Yes.
Can nyoni? No

Would either be risked in a big game? No.

Would either be needed?maybe.

So the 10mil now is worth a lot more to lfc than the player sitting on that bench.

Run the same for doak, Gordon, McConnell, bajcetic. Loaning or selling is worth more to the club than the squad option.

Maybe long term we get a much great benefit from loans.

But I thi k a certain naivety may exist regarding the amount of games coming

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

Leo have to take into context that clark has trained in a klopp/lijnders tactic for last 3 years. So he may be learning how to play that role that now doesn’t exist in the current set up and roles require different skill sets that Clark doesn’t have.

Doesn’t mean he’s a bad player but also other than our old assistant manager - doesn’t seem a huge queue to clubs lining up for him. He might turn out brilliant but if he was the next best thing you’d think a few champ or even lower prem clubs may have been sniffing around and putting in bids.

 

[Germlands Nozzer]

Doesn’t mean he’s a bad player but also other than our old assistant manager - doesn’t seem a huge queue to clubs lining up for him. He might turn out brilliant but if he was the next best thing you’d think a few champ or even lower prem clubs may have been sniffing around and putting in bids.

Maybe they were but Salzburg were his clear first choice because of Pep and the chance of CL football.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Maybe they were but Salzburg were his clear first choice because of Pep and the chance of CL football.

And not that many clubs will drop 10mil.

The queue would be reasonable for a loan but we have this sale in our heads as preference and linders said lark as soon as be was in rhe door at salzburg.

I think he's tapped the lad up before leaving personally

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

Maybe they were but Salzburg were his clear first choice because of Pep and the chance of CL football.

Well according to some he was super depressed about going so doesn’t sound like he really wanted to go there

 

[Solid Air]

Well according to some he was super depressed about going so doesn’t sound like he really wanted to go there

personally if i was a young player at a PL team where the chances of much first team is slim i'd be buzzing at that sort of move as it really gives you the chance to make your name.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Well according to some he was super depressed about going so doesn’t sound like he really wanted to go there

Well maybe he should have made that clear and shrugged at linders then?

 

[johnsonsbaby]

I don't think any of us are in disagreement over the basic principles, just the details.
Like most top clubs these days, we're a production line of young footballers. They benefit from the best facilities and some top level coaching to start them off on their careers. Only a very small number will make it for us or another team of a similar level, but they all have the chance to realise their own potential.
And they need to get out there and do it.
As fans we will differ over who we should keep, in the same way we differ over the senior players. It's inevitable.

That's pretty much how I see it too.

 

[The IncREDibles]

I don't think any of us are in disagreement over the basic principles, just the details.
Like most top clubs these days, we're a production line of young footballers. They benefit from the best facilities and some top level coaching to start them off on their careers. Only a very small number will make it for us or another team of a similar level, but they all have the chance to realise their own potential.
And they need to get out there and do it.
As fans we will differ over who we should keep, in the same way we differ over the senior players. It's inevitable.

You could argue that we have previously gone too far in the other direction in the past, with players like Nat Phillips who, let's face it, would only be playing regularly for us in an injury crisis.

The bottom line is results. These players need games to develop but will that have a detrimental effect on our results in the meantime? It's a tough balancing act.

 

[johnsonsbaby]

personally if i was a young player at a PL team where the chances of much first team is slim i'd be buzzing at that sort of move as it really gives you the chance to make your name.

I think that's the whole point of the argument, the chances weren't slim, very much the opposite, but now they are and that's why he's disappointed and taken up an offer elsewhere. I'm the only one seeing this so I'll shut up on it now and move on.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

You could argue that we have previously gone too far in the other direction in the past, with players like Nat Phillips who, let's face it, would only be playing regularly for us in an injury crisis.

The bottom line is results. These players need games to develop but will that have a detrimental effect on our results in the meantime? It's a tough balancing act.

Absolutely. There's a clear change in emphasis in the midfield despite what the pundits and bloggers might say.

Slot is only sort of similar to klopp in terms of press. He has a totally different approach to positions and to what he wants.

Klopp would have 6 attacking midfielders if he could. He used to call firmino, salah and mane midfielders lol. If he could have had windy, Lallana and henderson he would have and no 6 at all.

Slot is very much a coach from the Dutch school. He wants two in front of the back line and wants to flood midfield bit he wants to do it fron narrow full backs and ball playing midfielders.

Macallister suits him down to the ground imo.
Klopp only needed done macca and would have szoboslai and Jones or Elliot miles up the park then.

Slot needs two maccas.

This is why clark has not role and can be sold. There a list of 6 or 7 attacking midfielders.


People could make a case that the fresh borrow and an attitude to move players on is better for everyone. Nat Phillips is indeed a great example. That man should have moved 3 years ago. We got a 10 gsme run out of him and were extremely grateful for it but it's down him.not good and us too good since.

Phillips was on 65k a week so thats why.

The baby and the bath water however is my issue. Unless someone knows something then just scrubbing doak and Gordon and having no rw behind them at youth level and no options at senior level bar salah seems stupid. Time and patience's can make a plauer out of either.

If the 20mil (we will be lucky) for doak is more valuable now that having a player later then we are in rag order.


I also really think Slot is in for a shock when the intensity of tje 4 comps hits hom amd he needs some of these cast offs he seems to want to make out of youths.


Reality is doak could play in ECL for us and do ok. Nyoni cannot. Nallo cannot neither are at the club long enough.

Same goes for several of the cast offs.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I think that's the whole point of the argument, the chances weren't slim, very much the opposite, but now they are and that's why he's disappointed and taken up an offer elsewhere. I'm the only one seeing this so I'll shut up on it now and move on.

No you are right but it's the way of football tbh. Managers change and plauers fortunes with it.

Clark has every right to be disappointed but he should be pushing to have a major success and come back to the prem.

I'd personally rather pocket an easy league medal, play intl the UCL and make my name than sit in slot's stiffs for maybe 15mins at the end of a leavie cup game.

Someone decided before preseason even started that clark was out. Something went on imo

 

[Bindiana]

I think that's the whole point of the argument, the chances weren't slim, very much the opposite, but now they are and that's why he's disappointed and taken up an offer elsewhere. I'm the only one seeing this so I'll shut up on it now and move on.

I think its more our general transfer activity this summer. If we had bought 3 or 4 player this summer some of the kids leaving would make sense. At the moment our squad seems to be getting thinner and thinner. It would have been nice to see some of these kids get a run out in the Carabo Cup and FA Cup. It seems strange to see promising youngsters leave but players like Phillips still here.