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OldArgus said:
Most on here won't have had the privilege to watch possibly the finest footballer ever to don the red and white shirt, but I did and loved every moment.
Charlie Hurley was and still is the standard by which all players should be judged. Not only a brilliant footballer but an absolute modest gentleman to boot who loved this club with a passion.
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Well said. A world class player.
Fortunately we were so lucky to see him and Monty.
Since then nobody has come close although we've had some good players.
IMHO
 
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The Exile II said:
We've had every other model. This one seems to be working well.

It has to be entirely collaborative. Management hires coach based on style of play they want, coach chooses what he wants in terms of attributes, recruitment and data team gives options. Together they come to a decision.
Although I'd guess Mowbray has already played his joker and insisted with Dack. As long as every move is fully justified by data and/or experience, it's fine. It's when one party starts doing their own thing that problems start.
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This all day! I don't know why some seem to think that the recruitment team don't talk about things with the head coach and vice-versa.....as though they're at loggerheads with each other all the time...like they're two separate departments in the organisation.The whole process has to be the result of many detailed discussions. As for the Dack signing, if it was,as we suspect, initiated by TM and the recruitment team agreed with it and made it happen,that's a positive indication of the collaboration taking place.
 
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Brainy Dose said:
This all day! I don't know why some seem to think that the recruitment team don't talk about things with the head coach and vice-versa.....as though they're at loggerheads with each other all the time...like they're two separate departments in the organisation.The whole process has to be the result of many detailed discussions. As for the Dack signing, if it was,as we suspect, initiated by TM and the recruitment team agreed with it and made it happen,that's a positive indication of the collaboration taking place.
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It's difficult to believe the recruitment team actively sought out Dack so I think you're correct. Equally, even if they did initiate the move, it's clear they'd have run it by Mowbray and asked for his views ...

... they wouldn't sign him only to discover they hated each other.
 
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TPFNAC said:
My dad raves about Hurley, reckons he had everything. He is convinced that he would still have been a legend in the modern game
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Yer dad's right.
I personally spoke to another world class player John Charles who didn't know I was a mackem.
There's a picture at Elland Road of the pair of them in a mid air dual.
He told me The King was his favourite CH and best header he'd ever seen.
Also said The King helped him transfer his skills at both CH and CF.

I then told him I'm from Sunlun and in his own words
The King was a world class player who played for a great great club.

I walked away feeling 10ft tall.
 
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Smug in Boots said:
It's difficult to believe the recruitment team actively sought out Dack so I think you're correct. Equally, even if they did initiate the move, it's clear they'd have run it by Mowbray and asked for his views ...

... they wouldn't sign him only to discover they hated each other.
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Yep,common sense marra.
 
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Smug in Boots said:
The players are paid for and employed by the club, not the manager ...

... its quite reasonable that they should decide who's signed.

Your current girlfriend might give her opinion but you wouldn't let her choose all your furniture.
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Good analogy. Continuing it on and based solely on my experience with my dear wife, perhaps he's going for the death by a thousand paper cuts approach and will eventually get his own way and replace every bit of the furniture with his own selection over the course of a few years :emoticon-0102-bigsm
 
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Smug in Boots said:
The players are paid for and employed by the club, not the manager ...

... its quite reasonable that they should decide who's signed.

Your current girlfriend might give her opinion but you wouldn't let her choose all your furniture.
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Playing devils advocate here but who is “the club”. That’s not Speakman, he’s an employee like Mowbray.
 
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TPFNAC said:
Poor old Tony can't win at times. It was a q@a session as part of a season preview event.

If he had sat there just saying "nothing to do either me" people would be annoyed.

People have picked out comments, for all we know completely out of context and posted them on twitter.

I found last years interviews with Mowbray a good listen as he would go off on a tangent then drop some nugget of advice in for the player he was talking about.

The one thing I think we can all agree on is deficient squad or not Tony will have them raring to go Sunday and they won't give up till the final whistle.
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I like him but I wish he’d presented a united front regardless of his feelings or what’s going on behind the scenes, that would have been more professional rather than undermining the hierarchy. Especially when the fanbase is so agitated already and probably needed a bit of reassurance more than anything.

It just felt like a bit of self preservation to me, something I’ve never liked managers doing from Allardyce to Alex Neil.
 
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Mowbray has to be involved with recruitment discussions as players aren't just going to be dumped on him. I think as a collective team they would identify areas that need addressed, if the head coach wasn't involved with that the model wouldn't work as the person working day in day out with the players would know the areas best to address.

I think Bob was probably right about Mowbray having a list but the players would need to be backed up by the data we use, probably dack was the only one who's data worked and no fee involved. The others may not have or the fee was too high.
 
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Kipper said:
Playing devils advocate here but who is “the club”. That’s not Speakman, he’s an employee like Mowbray.
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In ny view its an opinion rather than a technical issue.

I'd say Speakman is directly instructed by the owner, represents the club and carries out the owners wishes. The manager isn't directly instructed by the owner and reports to Speakman.

I don't believe Speakman reports to Mowbray in the same way. So, although they're both employees as you rightly say, there's a subtle difference imo.
 
Smug in Boots said:
In ny view its an opinion rather than a technical issue.

I'd say Speakman is directly instructed by the owner, represents the club and carries out the owners wishes. The manager isn't directly instructed by the owner and reports to Speakman.

I don't believe Speakman reports to Mowbray in the same way. So, although they're both employees as you rightly say, there's a subtle difference imo.
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KLD is basically Speakmans immediate boss/line manager

Speakman is Mowbrays
 
Culinary said:
I like him but I wish he’d presented a united front regardless of his feelings or what’s going on behind the scenes, that would have been more professional rather than undermining the hierarchy. Especially when the fanbase is so agitated already and probably needed a bit of reassurance more than anything.

It just felt like a bit of self preservation to me, something I’ve never liked managers doing from Allardyce to Alex Neil.
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Is the fan base so agitated though? Most seem to accept there is still 4 weeks left of the window
 
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TPFNAC said:
Is the fan base so agitated though? Most seem to accept there is still 4 weeks left of the window
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Most people seem to be really looking forward to the season imo ...

... the 'agitated brigade' seem to be a tiny percentage of people on forums.

The main agitation seems to have been directed towards 'the Stewart situation situation' which Mowbray doesn't appear to believe is that much of a situation tbh.
 
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TPFNAC said:
Is the fan base so agitated though? Most seem to accept there is still 4 weeks left of the window
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Reading RTG (I know, I know), Twitter and several posters on here I would say so.

Loads bemoaning the model and wanting the whole thing ripped up and accusing the club of being tight. Fires which Mowbray stoked last night.
 
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