Bloody foreigners, coming over here taking our jobs showing us no respect.
[HASHTAG]#Blue[/HASHTAG] ink.
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[HASHTAG]#Blue[/HASHTAG] ink.
Off Topic Politics Thread
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
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I have read Marx, yeah. I think it’s the ramblings of someone who had no idea about reality.
We have fallen prey to the great superstition of the 21st century; the belief that man can live without faith.
I think Marx was spot on when he observed that “all history is the history of class struggle.” An insight he got, btw, after reading Titus Livius’ History of the Roman Republic.
Aa an historian, Marx is still influential today among academics who are anything but Marxist in their politics. And as an economist, he had many ideas in common with Adam Smith, though they both drew very different conclusions. Bit silly to dismiss him altogether imo, just because of the misapplication of his ideas in the century after his death.
Again, I disagree. I have read a lot of his work and I disagree with almost all of it.
Im not just dismissing it out of hand quickly. I fundamentally think the way he views the world is completely wrong. His work is largely wrong in identifying the causes of societies problems (in my opinion).
The way he views the world is hugely reductionist and simple. He has no understanding of the complexities of reality and I think his ideas are stupid and dangerous. The fact his ideas have had an influence is a net negative imo. He is more of a conspiracy theorist than me (
) and thinks the world is out to get him. I think of all the famous financial figures, only Keynes has had a more negative impact on society than Marx.
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Another Twitter files just dropped.
Proof (via leaked internal emails) that Biden’s government has been aggressively controlling not just Twitter but all other social platforms too.
Again, I disagree. I have read a lot of his work and I disagree with almost all of it.
Im not just dismissing it out of hand quickly. I fundamentally think the way he views the world is completely wrong. His work is largely wrong in identifying the causes of societies problems (in my opinion).
The way he views the world is hugely reductionist and simple. He has no understanding of the complexities of reality and I think his ideas are stupid and dangerous. The fact his ideas have had an influence is a net negative imo. He is more of a conspiracy theorist than me (
I think of all the famous financial figures, only Keynes has had a more negative impact on society than Marx.
Which theories specifically offend you? Do you not believe that those with economic power tend to control the other areas of life? Do you not believe there is a divide in wealth between those who have and those who have not? Do you not think we fetishise objects and lose track of the working man’s labour which goes into the production of the thing? Do you not believe in forms of ideological control enacted by the wealthy?
I can’t really see what world you are living in?
It’s a complicated subject. But he thinks that capitalism is the problem.
But I disagree. I think capitalism has enabled specialisation, freedom and growth for humanity on an unprecedented scale.
Some of his macro analysis about what’s happening is correct, but I just don’t think his solutions & ideas are right. I think he makes the classic mistake that a lot of left wing thinkers make:
They blame “capitalism” for all of societies inequality; but they are wrong. Inequality is a natural result of any hierarchical structure. Human beings are by our nature hierarchical, so Marx & the left massively overlook the fact that any system we put in place will see huge inequality.
With this fact in mind, capitalism does an amazing job at decentralising this inequality and has actually given so much opportunity to the working class. It’s almost miraculous that we live in such a free society with so much opportunity for all. (Even with all the problems that we are facing)
Ps Merry Christmas
Merry Christmas!
Ok, so you aren’t wrong that we live in a world where mankind has been able to specialise and to grow exponentially. I agree capitalism promotes that. However, you say people now are free. That is an illusion. Free to do what? Most of us will spend our lives indentured to a system which offers very little capacity for personal growth. Social mobility is at an all time low. That is not a sign of economic freedom. In fact the growth of individuals is more and more a detriment to the masses. Wealth is being sucked out of the commonwealth and in its place is poverty and misery. Worse, individual successes hide the frutility of most people’s lives and encourage the masses to continue being docile sheep of the system.
I am really worried about your inequality is natural idea. It sounds like the great chain of being. It sounds like birthright. It sounds a lot like the poor are poor because they are lazy drunks. These ideas have been propagated for thousands of years - but they are just an other excuse for the rich to double down on their position. Why help the poor when they will just waste it?
We do not live in a society with equal opportunity for all. If you are born poor you are more likely to stay poor than at any moment in the last 300 years. Just look up some basic figures. We are so horrendously divided over wealth that people in one of the world’s wealthiest countries need food banks to survive.
Capitalism justifies the I am alright, Jack attitude that make Conservativism the central political ideology of the UK.
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Well said. I would also point out that every single, solitary advance made by working people in the history of capitalism has been achieved, not by capitalism benevolently handing it over, but by collective action by the people. Whether it’s the right to vote, or the right to healthcare, or paid holidays, or any of a million other things, it’s the trade unions, the labour movement generally, the suffragists, the civil rights movement, the gay rights movement, and other collectives which have achieved those things.
The reality is though, as you say, that the gap between the rich and poor has never been greater, in the whole of the history of humankind. Capitalism stands convicted of engineering inequality on an unprecedented scale, and worse, of actually putting humankind on the brink of global extinction, by a combination of nuclear holocaust and man-made environmental catastrophe.
We simply have to find a better way of organising ourselves.
Merry Christmas.
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OK, I`ve had a few. Watched the King`s speech this afternoon. Same blah I`ve heard from his mother for the last >50 years. I`ve got faith in the good people in our country (UK), but the lyrics of the national anthem grinds my gears - god save our gracious queen/king - send her/him happy and glorious - long to reign over us etc. Nothing about the welfare of the people, or the country.
Time for an upgrade on our national anthem. At least you have Flower of Scotland, and the Welsh have Bread of Heaven. I’m an advocate for England adopting Jerusalem.
...... I`m not a huge fan of Flower of Scotland either btw !
I think you might mean Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau, otherwise known as Land of my Fathers.
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