Dr Strangelove (how I learned to stop worrying and love Boris)

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Pure River Slut said:
I’ll ask the question again though. Who is a more credible PM. Starmer or the ****show that is Boris. Not saying that the Labour Party aren’t in a bad way - they firmly are, I despise Momentum - but the state of the Tories man - Williamson, fuel, the USA deal, lorry drivers, most of the handling of Covid, cash for friends, that vile car crash Patel, Rees Mogg, - it’s farcical. Not sure why people think the car crash of Labour is unelectable when the car crash of the Tories and their buffoon of an absent leader are electable. If you compare trust in a PM I’d have Starmer - he’s rational- he just has devastation beneath him, but so does Johnson tbh
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To be honest you are pushing on an open door.

Of course Boris likes to project the image of a bufoon.
He does it so well, I think it's genuine.
Yet Labour still fails to win an election.
WHY?

I think it's all down to the activities of The Far Left.
Over the last 50 years, whenever The Far Left have APPEARED to have control of The Labour Party, the middle of the road, left of centre, voters have deserted in numbers.

And I think that they will stay away untill they are sure that these people with the agenda which is ailien to the majority of us.

Starmer, in trying to reverse the rules that were changed to enable movements such as Momentum to gain so much influence, is TRYING to correct the situation.
As he rightly points out when he claims to have become a politician because he wants to change things, to do that you have to win elections.

But the only people who can bring about this change are the Party Members.
And while moderates stay at home and ignore Politics, the followers of Momentum join the party and attend meetings and use their votes.
 
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polyphemus said:
To be honest you are pushing on an open door.

Of course Boris likes to project the image of a bufoon.
He does it so well, I think it's genuine.
Yet Labour still fails to win an election.
WHY?

I think it's all down to the activities of The Far Left.
Over the last 50 years, whenever The Far Left have APPEARED to have control of The Labour Party, the middle of the road, left of centre, voters have deserted in numbers.

And I think that they will stay away untill they are sure that these people with the agenda which is ailien to the majority of us.

Starmer, in trying to reverse the rules that were changed to enable movements such as Momentum to gain so much influence, is TRYING to correct the situation.
As he rightly points out when he claims to have become a politician because he wants to change things, to do that you have to win elections.

But the only people who can bring about this change are the Party Members.
And while moderates stay at home and ignore Politics, the followers of Momentum join the party and attend meetings and use their votes.
Click to expand...
The thing is I wouldn’t say I’m of the centre - I think McDonnell had some smart policies last time round for example - but I think every person who joined the party within the party Momentum contributed heavily to an election defeat and those who drive it now drive the party away from power. It’s the type of messaging and how things are done. Intolerance, inflexibility, not listening, turn people away. Some of the policy is fair enough - there has to be a redistribution of wealth or we suffer as a community - it’s the how we get there that needs to change. Talk don’t rant and listen. The greens have more radical policies but deliver it less arrogantly than momentum for example. As I keep saying though we also have a right wing party in power who are also harsh, don’t listen, extreme, dangerous and useless and other than the media I don’t get why the Labour Party, despite their flaws get all of the criticism. It’s not like they care about the impact of their policies on everyday people. Look at their recent economic policies. Harsh and uncaring.
 
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Pure River Slut said:
The thing is I wouldn’t say I’m of the centre - I think McDonnell had some smart policies last time round for example - but I think every person who joined the party within the party Momentum contributed heavily to an election defeat and those who drive it now drive the party away from power. It’s the type of messaging and how things are done. Intolerance, inflexibility, not listening, turn people away. Some of the policy is fair enough - there has to be a redistribution of wealth or we suffer as a community - it’s the how we get there that needs to change. Talk don’t rant and listen. The greens have more radical policies but deliver it less arrogantly than momentum for example. As I keep saying though we also have a right wing party in power who are also harsh, don’t listen, extreme, dangerous and useless and other than the media I don’t get why the Labour Party, despite their flaws get all of the criticism. It’s not like they care about the impact of their policies on everyday people. Look at their recent economic policies. Harsh and uncaring.
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I may be repeating myself, if labour cannot win more seats in Scotland, it has an uphill struggle to win more seats in England. So realistically what does it have to do to win more red/tory seats in england!
 
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If Labour once more wants to be the voice of the working people. It has to learn to espouse policies that will help, 'white van man' or construction workers, or uber drivers etc.

At the moment as large scale engineering/ship building/mining places of work have disappeared. The jobs that replaced them have just as bad a 'boss exploiting them' namely markets and the drive to the bottom for wages or the price paid to lots of different tradesmen. In the end consumers do not benefit much cos' cowboys do a crap job. If you find a decent tradesman to do a job, the contacts are spread around friends etc.

What has disappeared is any form of genuine apprentice scheme. Which needs a combination of college and working on the job with a 'master' who knows what they are doing.

We do not pay enough for many types of jobs, cos workers in the same business undercut each other. If there was better regulation eg along the old guild system, then a price for a job would be the same whoever carried it out. In the land of free competion eg New York a license system works, only authorised workers can carry out many jobs. it is often illegal to employ others to do a job or it will invalidate your insurance if anything goes wrong. Government contracts should only be carried out by properly qualified workers, this does not mean automatically accepting the lowest quote...

So lets have all construction workers in a guild where they have to learn properly to study and experience on the job training how to do a particular trade. Let 'Guilds' govern the training, ie only experts in the field can have apprentices and can sign students into college.

Undercutting on quotes for work would be banned with an agreed price for an agreed job. Anything that goes wrong due to poor workmanship has to be sorted out by the guild who has to pay compensation to the customer.

We have to get away from battering wages down and having unskilled people carrying out jobs that require skilled exponents. This should be the policy and philosophy for the Labour Party.
 
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Oooops. Maybe these industries that are blaming Brexit really do just want cheap underpaid foreign labour, after all. Who would have guessed <yikes>

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Is anybody watching the Labour party conference? I've got tears running down my eyes. So funny <laugh>
 
Saff said:
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I have a friend who drives HGV's.

Over recent years he has had little by way of rises to match inflation. One four year spell with nothing.
He believes the the average age of drivers is 57.
Only about 1% of drivers are women.
The huge influx of drivers from Europe kept UK wages down.
As soon as the Brexit vote was finaly won and the split was expected to happen, he predicted that a driver shortage would come back and bite.

Now, if he could spot this, why did the Transport Industry do nothing about it.
As far as I know there is no sort of apprentice scheme.
Anyone who fancies the job has to pay for their own training. £15/17 k with no guarantee of passing the test.
Many of the 'younger drivers are ex military. They got their licences in the Services.

His employers recently offered their Drivers an increase of 8.5%.
The unions immediatly rejected it.
It's called payback time, I believe.
 
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Pure River Slut said:
The thing is I wouldn’t say I’m of the centre - I think McDonnell had some smart policies last time round for example - but I think every person who joined the party within the party Momentum contributed heavily to an election defeat and those who drive it now drive the party away from power. It’s the type of messaging and how things are done. Intolerance, inflexibility, not listening, turn people away. Some of the policy is fair enough - there has to be a redistribution of wealth or we suffer as a community - it’s the how we get there that needs to change. Talk don’t rant and listen. The greens have more radical policies but deliver it less arrogantly than momentum for example. As I keep saying though we also have a right wing party in power who are also harsh, don’t listen, extreme, dangerous and useless and other than the media I don’t get why the Labour Party, despite their flaws get all of the criticism. It’s not like they care about the impact of their policies on everyday people. Look at their recent economic policies. Harsh and uncaring.
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Not sure that is really the case these days, they are probably just a bit further to the right than New Labour were when they got into power, compare BoJo to Thatcher and you can see the difference. They are basically just right of centre, most of our successful political parties are this way now, just right or left of centre. What we have with Labour now is a seething undercurrent of nutters who are in great enough number that they are tearing the party to bits at the moment. Starmer is right to try and change the rules to stop them.
 
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This is an interesting article about people's perceptions of left and right wing views. Its a couple of years old now but demonstrates that large numbers of people don't hold wholly left wing or wholly right wing views.
I think it goes a long way to demonstrating why people are put off by politicians that go too far in either direction. It also hints at the fact that your own perception of someone else's position on the left/right spectrum is largely influenced by where you are positioned yourself.
The conclusion that I reach from all of this is that what we really need is a dead centre 'sensible party'.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politic...08/14/left-wing-vs-right-wing-its-complicated
 
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polyphemus said:
I have a friend who drives HGV's.

Over recent years he has had little by way of rises to match inflation. One four year spell with nothing.
He believes the the average age of drivers is 57.
Only about 1% of drivers are women.
The huge influx of drivers from Europe kept UK wages down.
As soon as the Brexit vote was finaly won and the split was expected to happen, he predicted that a driver shortage would come back and bite.

Now, if he could spot this, why did the Transport Industry do nothing about it.
As far as I know there is no sort of apprentice scheme.
Anyone who fancies the job has to pay for their own training. £15/17 k with no guarantee of passing the test.
Many of the 'younger drivers are ex military. They got their licences in the Services.

His employers recently offered their Drivers an increase of 8.5%.
The unions immediatly rejected it.
It's called payback time, I believe.
Click to expand...

Meanwhile companies like Aldi that recruit their own drivers and make them feel like human beings aren't suffering as badly.

Rather than learn from this, the bosses are screaming that they want their slaves back.
 
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Gina Miller climbing out of the woodwork, again. As usual she's doing a glorious job of making an utter twat of herself.

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Any views in Starmers speech ? Better received than Johnson’s and a warm introduction from Doreen Lawrence. Just listening to it now
 
The Norton Cat said:
Not seen the actual speech, just commentaries and summaries. Based on those it looks sensible.
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My view. Definitely sensible - committed to both the strong economy and the good society all what people need to hear. Very disdainful of Johnson’s blustering opportunism. Trustworthy with delivery I think. Strong support from recipients of his previous career. Bit bland and lots of heckling from the ideologues in the party the weaknesses so some work to be done.
On a personal level I’d probably want more change to the nutty unfair world we accept but I also accept not many see it like me.
 
few want to drive these days, roads are sh1te and the 'logistics managers' place extremely tight times for drops...get stuck in traffic, be late for one slot and the whole day becomes a nightmare, i did multi-drop for 5 years and i can tell you in many cases drivers are not valued 'ten a penny are drivers', rarely paid what the job is worth, and stressed to feck constantly on the road usually by the feckin morons in suits and the 'gorillas' in the w@nka cars who seem to spend all day trying to get a reaction off someone.
 
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