If FPP are in by the time we head back to the stadium of light the place should be rocking
FPP to take full control
- Thread starter Whiteleas Wanderer
- Start date
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Yeah, I cant see it either. For this reason alone I'm not allowing myself to get optimistic, haha.
I think if the asking price was really £10m there would be at least 2-3 other interested parties willing to pay more, by the sounds of things. It's basically Donald taking a loss, which seems unlikely.
I'd agree, but the loan that they have secured against the club assets might make them number 1.
If it's take a small loss now or potentially take much bigger losses in the future if he's stuck with the club... I know you think he can afford to run the club but I'm not so sure. Especially with the shambles that football is in currently.
Would the price for any other buyer not be £10m higher though so esentially £20m rather than the £10m that potentially FPP would pay. Would the £10m not be classed as an initial deposit.
just reading between the lines regarding the leaked accounts stuff, and the murmerings of renewed takeover rumours, can I offer two observations..... 1) there's no time like the middle of a worldwide killer virus pandemic to bury some bad news about a £20m black hole. 2) there's no time like season ticket renewal time to release some encouraging glimmer of hope to your paying customers. call me an old cynic if you like, but you'd think there was some PR person pulling some strings behind the scenes, who maybe has a vested interest?
Surely if the asking price is 10m, FPP have already bought the club with the loan they gave Donald.
I cant see why anybody would want to buy a football club whilst nobody knows where or when the next game of football is coming from and whilst not knowing what state football is going to be in once the virus pops its clogs. The virus could mutate continuously, we could be stuck with it for years for all we know.
It would be like buying a building during an earthquake.
It would be like buying a building during an earthquake.
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There were plenty of media leaks in August / September and we’re still waiting.
Perhaps those involved have learnt a lesson from back then and are keeping quiet and not blabbing to the media
I can't buy that mate, doesn't work for me.
As far as the rest of the world is concerned they have no interest in SAFC news, whatever it is.
As far as the supporters are concerned there's no way they can bury any news ....
.... as this thread is proving.
Two scenarios there, relevant to all of the above and yesterday's rumours:
Option 1 is that they're asking for £10m total, in which case once the debt is wiped Donald was taking a heavy loss once everything is reconciled. Even if FPP have the loan of $12m in the club that covered most of that price, this wouldn't make them owners unless Donald wants them to be and they agree to it. It is important that Donald can't force that deal on them without them actively wanting it. At that point if they agreed, they'd take us on instead of getting repaid and Donald would leave the club.
Option 2 is that they want £20m as per neil, which would mean FPP adding another £10-11m to the asking price or anyone else paying £20m total. That would (sort of) value us at around £40m once the debt was wiped and mean a reasonably good profit for Donald, in fact a great profit given the circumstances. What I don't understand, if this was ever on the table, why FPP wouldn't have done it in November and taken full control then of last year instead of now?
That last point is why I'm struggling to believe FPP are going to come on board now. Wiping the debt didn't need to wait for the accounts - in fact it was probably agreed by Donald, Sartori and Methven last year, before FPP even got involved. It's simply become public knowledge now.
That means if FPP are today willing to pay £20m (their loan + £10m new money) for us and allow Donald to wipe his £20.5m debt, there shouldn't really be a disagreement of any kind and they should own us already.
But they don't, which implies there is something else guiding their strategy with us.
My guess (and is just a guess based on what has been said + the deal structure FPP have) is that Donald wants the £15-20m he needs to break even/small profit, that FPP don't mind that price but are unsure they want to take on the running and liabilities of the club until some conditions are met (primarily us being in the Championship to save them the enormous risk of being stuck down here for a prolonged period). At that price though, I'd be surprised if there's nobody else willing to do it, so I'd guess we get sold to someone else once there's a bit of clarity about when and how football comes back from the EFL
Because if you buy low and ride it out the rewards down the line will be far, far greater.
For a long term investor it’s a massive opportunity to by at a falsely low price point, in a massive buyers market.
I tend to agree with this. Sunderland offers any potential buyer a unique opportunity to make some real money and get a huge amount of fun at the same time. Not many clubs with Sunderlands infrastructure (world class stadium and training facilities), fan base and potential are available for the price of a mediocre premier league player. There will be someone/consortium out there, just hope its soon.
Unless I was a multi-multi-billionaire and financially secure enough to be prepared to lose everything that I would pump into a football club then I would not buy a football club during normal times. If I was a multi-multi billionaire I would rather pay £30 million for a club which is ticking along nicely, with things like football matches and training and staff busy doing their jobs, rather than pay £10 million for a club with everyone sitting around on their elbows, some of them with nasty life threatening coughs, and not knowing when they are gonna start working again or how many of your fellow clubs are gonna still be in existence. If these Americans are as rich as I am led to believe I think option A would be more suitable for them. The only folk who option B would suit are the the sort of rich folk who would see it as a high risk opportunity, who have limited funds but have a spare £10 million lying about the place. Someone nearer Donalds wealth than the Americans. Which is worrying.
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GOM, over the road, has posted the minutes from a Sunderland Collective Meeting held on 13th June 2019 which could explain what has happened over this weekend.
The minutes also raised the question in my mind of an impending sale at a reduced asking price because the debt has been written off. I may be clutching at straws with every finger and toe crossed.
CM noted that the parachute payment money was always intended to pay off SBC bank debt, and that was precisely the “money coming back into the club” – indeed, it is precisely what parachute payments are intended to do. The fact that a paper debt has been run up is practically irrelevant, as that money was never going to be spent on players; it was always going to pay down debt, whether Ellis Short, Madrox or anyone else owned the club in June 2018. So, no, the club does not get lucky enough both to pay off its debt and then receive the same money again to spend on new players! Nor will it make any difference if a majority stake in the club were to be sold, as if the owed amount of cash were to be placed in the club it would simply increase the purchase price by that sum.
As previously stated, CM suggested that the avoidable situation was that the SPA should have left 25m debt to SBC outstanding, to be paid off over the following weeks. That not having been done, CM noted that the unavoidable situation was where the Club obviously had to abide by Premier League rules and indeed accounting rules. CM urged the Collective to focus on the big picture: the day before club got taken over, the total amount of debt was around £180m, owed to Drumaville and to SBC, the latter interest bearing. A year later there is no debt. Indeed, because of the paper debt from Madrox to SAFC, even the substantial sums that Madrox have put in over the last 12 months have not come in as new debt, but as a re-paying of that paper debt. The whole matter is cause for real celebration.
CM went on to discuss the PR handling of the situation. CM wrote in the programme notes at the start of the season explaining the situation. The deal was worth £40m to Ellis as he received £15 million and then didn’t have to pay £25m.
CM: In accounting terms, the club is now “owed” around £20 million – so in the event that any new owner came in, there will an adjustment in purchase price. If Madrox stays in charge the debt remains and gradually gets paid down. As per the above, not leaving £25 million of debt to SBC in the SPA is a big ‘win’ for the club.
The minutes also raised the question in my mind of an impending sale at a reduced asking price because the debt has been written off. I may be clutching at straws with every finger and toe crossed.
CM noted that the parachute payment money was always intended to pay off SBC bank debt, and that was precisely the “money coming back into the club” – indeed, it is precisely what parachute payments are intended to do. The fact that a paper debt has been run up is practically irrelevant, as that money was never going to be spent on players; it was always going to pay down debt, whether Ellis Short, Madrox or anyone else owned the club in June 2018. So, no, the club does not get lucky enough both to pay off its debt and then receive the same money again to spend on new players! Nor will it make any difference if a majority stake in the club were to be sold, as if the owed amount of cash were to be placed in the club it would simply increase the purchase price by that sum.
As previously stated, CM suggested that the avoidable situation was that the SPA should have left 25m debt to SBC outstanding, to be paid off over the following weeks. That not having been done, CM noted that the unavoidable situation was where the Club obviously had to abide by Premier League rules and indeed accounting rules. CM urged the Collective to focus on the big picture: the day before club got taken over, the total amount of debt was around £180m, owed to Drumaville and to SBC, the latter interest bearing. A year later there is no debt. Indeed, because of the paper debt from Madrox to SAFC, even the substantial sums that Madrox have put in over the last 12 months have not come in as new debt, but as a re-paying of that paper debt. The whole matter is cause for real celebration.
CM went on to discuss the PR handling of the situation. CM wrote in the programme notes at the start of the season explaining the situation. The deal was worth £40m to Ellis as he received £15 million and then didn’t have to pay £25m.
CM: In accounting terms, the club is now “owed” around £20 million – so in the event that any new owner came in, there will an adjustment in purchase price. If Madrox stays in charge the debt remains and gradually gets paid down. As per the above, not leaving £25 million of debt to SBC in the SPA is a big ‘win’ for the club.
I would agree with you, and i think FPP (If still interested) will bide their time a bit longer to turn the screw on Donald, as every month will see him losing money to cover running costs, never mind pressure from the fans.
On the other side of things the Mags are potentially being taken over (Money not an issue to the head choppers i know) but also media reports about the Dutch group looking at clubs, so their is movement about
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Really useful - thanks. So in-effect Madrox paid £15m for the club. I wonder what their asking price actually is?
Really useful - thanks. So in-effect Madrox paid £15m for the club. I wonder what their asking price actually is?