Off Topic Coronavirus

  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!
Now, I am not a scientist (biology ‘o’ level 1977 was my peak) though I have worked with scientists and doctors for decades and have to be able to at least get the sense of data from charts etc.

I knew there was something dodgy with this chart prepared by Public Health England and shown by Yvonne Doyle yesterday. Now, we all now get that these charts are bollocks and pure propaganda, but this one disturbed me for some reason. I have now tracked it down.
You must log in or register to see images

In this context it doesn’t really matter which line represents which country. Look at the scale on the left. Unless you know how to read a graph you probably (and quite fairly) wouldn’t even look at this, the lines tell the story, you would think. But the scale massively distorts the distance between the lines and the relative performance of the different countries. Japan’s deaths per million is 3, Germany’s is 77 and Belgium’s is 655. Yet this chart makes it look like Germany is closer to Belgium than it is to Japan. Why? I can only assume because it makes us look slightly better. If I presented data on a drug like this I would be kicked out and fined. I suspect you would fail in a public examination if you drew a similar scale to illustrate something. Yet our ‘top’ public health doctors think it’s ok to present stuff to the public, which relies on them to be honest brokers, in this way. At the very least Doyle should have referred to the scale when she presented the data. These experts have been colonised by the politicians.

if you are interested the countries at the top - us, Italy, Spain, France, Belgium, would be way way higher than the US, Germany and Japan if the scale were accurate and even - it would be a very tall graph indeed, and rather embarrassing. Out of interest Sweden would be a bit above the US, but way lower than the rest.

Really quite cross.

And right there Rangercol, Ellers and Mad Bad Turk, is your snapshot of why many, many on here without Eaton and Oxford bumming educations, could quite easily have made a better fist.
It’s about some half decent intelligence accompanied with a generous side order of values and integrity.

Give us our country back - bastard, useless foreigners.
 
I’m not suggesting that. I’m suggesting you look a bit less selectively at how they come to the number they do. The ONS definition is clear enough but you appear to have skipped out part of it.
You said last week 40K had died. That is wrong Watford. Anyway, I am not going to debate this because it gets nowhere.
 
You said last week 40K had died. That is wrong Watford. Anyway, I am not going to debate this because it gets nowhere.

And in all likelihood that was a conservative estimate if you aren’t burying your head in the sand and ignoring the limitations of the numbers they’re using. I wish it was 27000 or whatever it officially is now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: qprbeth
And in all likelihood that was a conservative estimate if you aren’t burying your head in the sand and ignoring the limitations of the numbers they’re using. I wish it was 27000 or whatever it officially is now.
There are still many deaths unaccounted for, with post-mortem taking up to 2 weeks after death, I expect those figures to increase, either way at least we are top of Europe.......oops
 
I like Witty but his comment about we shouldn't be learning things half way through something like this pandemic was extremely strange.
 
On the off chance anyone has Sky News on they just confirmed the stats include only those who were tested.

It’s fine though. No need for any apologies. We’re all friends.
 
On the off chance anyone has Sky News on they just confirmed the stats include only those who were tested.

It’s fine though. No need for any apologies. We’re all friends.
I thought that was common knowledge anyway. I understand Belguim were using figures based on presumed covid19 deaths. Anyway, as Boris says, we shouldn't really compare to other countries, so much so they treat us to a lovely graph every day doing just that. The detective in me suspects it's due to us showing the slightly more corrected figures enabling us to fly high in the world.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sb_73
I thought that was common knowledge anyway. I understand Belguim were using figures based on presumed covid19 deaths. Anyway, as Boris says, we shouldn't really compare to other countries, so much so they treat us to a lovely graph every day doing just that. The detective in me suspects it's due to us showing the slightly more corrected figures enabling us to fly high in the world.

I fear poor old Belgium are being included on a lot of charts for a small country. I’m surprised we don’t add San Marino too.
 
I thought that was common knowledge anyway. I understand Belguim were using figures based on presumed covid19 deaths. Anyway, as Boris says, we shouldn't really compare to other countries, so much so they treat us to a lovely graph every day doing just that. The detective in me suspects it's due to us showing the slightly more corrected figures enabling us to fly high in the world.
I couldn’t face the return of the king, did he really say that (of course he did, I don’t doubt you Bob). Of course he is right, we should compare ourselves to others only when we are certain of total and crushing victory. Perhaps girth rather than deaths would be a better measure for us.

The Belgium thing, with them recording suspected deaths as COVID19, makes sense their rate is so much higher than everyone else’s. Condemned to be included in every chart to make the rest look less bad.
 
Sb did you see that BBC interview last night with the Chinese ambassador to the UK? <yikes>
Scary mate. He was saying the disease didn't come from China and they don't have those 'wet markets'... they are fruit and veg.
We have to deal with these people?


what was he saying about getting his facts and figures from those in charge?
 
  • Like
Reactions: bobmid
I'm so glad to hear "we have done the right things at the right time". Boris.
Our chief scientific officer live on radio stating herd immunity was the way to go, to a lockdown a few weeks later!
Still we have no screening whatsoever at airports? Why does our science and our experts seem to differ so much from other countries? We are nearly a quarter of a year on from our first case and we still let people who could be carrying a deadly disease into our country! C'mon all you brexiteers, get on board, you didnt even want a foreigner to enter for work this time last year!!! But someone potentially infected with a deadly disease is perfectly acceptable??
 
I'm so glad to hear "we have done the right things at the right time". Boris.
Our chief scientific officer live on radio stating herd immunity was the way to go, to a lockdown a few weeks later!
Still we have no screening whatsoever at airports? Why does our science and our experts seem to differ so much from other countries? We are nearly a quarter of a year on from our first case and we still let people who could be carrying a deadly disease into our country! C'mon all you brexiteers, get on board, you didnt even want a foreigner to enter for work this time last year!!! But someone potentially infected with a deadly disease is perfectly acceptable??

Good patriots wouldn’t leave Blighty either what’s wrong with a holiday in Grimsby
 
  • Like
Reactions: bobmid