Off Topic General Election Special

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originallambrettaman said:
Great, so we're going to give everyone a four day week, other than doctors and nurses, maybe teachers and the fire brigade, as we need permanent cover for those to. Sounds like a really well thought through plan to me.

I've no issue with companies switching to a four day week if it suits them, I'm sure there's many business which would benefit from such an arrangement, it's inflicting it on those who it doesn't work for that's the problem and that's a great many of them.

I don't believe any party will reduce peoples holidays.
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I don’t have direct and granular policy influence in the Labour Party sadly. I was clearly discussing the potential of the idea, with some speculation granted – as no one has clearly mapped it yet. I think it's refreshing for a prospective government to outline its vision, its plans beyond the next term.

As said, it’s an ambition - like ALL changes in working conditions once were – no matter how people once viewed them. If you look at the history of workers’ rights you’ll see opposition throughout along with protestations of it not being able to be done. Even the stuff we take for granted now.

And in a de-regulated economy (this ‘new’ WDA does not guarantee related EU legislation on workers’ rights) a government with a majority can do what they want.

This current government do not like workers’ rights. They interfere with profits for one. Anything can happen and people need to be aware of this.

Here are a couple of select quotes from current cabinet ministers:

“Workers’ rights are obstacles to business” and “UK workers are the worst idlers in the world” Dominic Raab et al.

“I envisage there being absolutely no regulation whatsoever – no minimum wage, no maternity or paternity rights, no unfair dismissal rights, no pension rights – for the smallest companies that are trying to get off the ground” Angela Leadsom

Boris' opinions of the working-class are well documented and there are many more quotes I could offer.

If you are a worker voting Conservative - just be aware of what you might be voting for.
 
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Duffens_Briefs said:
Is that the well-known Labour activist Paul Mason? Before he pinned his colours to the mast he was worth listening to. Now he's full of ****.
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Eh? He’s always been pro-Labour.

So when did he suddenly come out with this then? Must have been years ago (if at all). Be interested if you could pinpoint me to this time.

And it sort of contradicts your claim to have been a Labour voter up to Blair too. Strange.

Tip for the day: you really should listen to people with different views – you learn stuff directly and indirectly.
 
Ric Glasgow said:
I would agree with much of what you have said here and at my age I'd welcome a 32 hour week,I recently left a job because on top of a 45 hour week,they wanted too much commitment for weekend work.

I want to see out the rest of my life without the stress and exhaustion of working 60 hour weeks but the young and the greedy play into management hands by taking every hour they can get.In my days as a steward I fought for better basic pay and the creation of more jobs,nowadays wage negotiations invariably revolve around enhanced overtime rates and a longer working week.

Personally I think the unions will baulk at the idea of a 32 hour working week and it'll never be implemented and putting that aside I fail to see how production will go up by working less hours?

Let's also consider that if NHS staff aren't afforded the same rights in terms of a shorter working week,which they won't be,how many will seek employment in different spheres? And how many will claim discrimination and testify that they are being treated less favourably?
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Some good point there Ric. I'm sorry that you obviously feel let down by the labour movement. I have many misgivings of its past too, particularly the PLP of New Labour.

I think with regard pay and workers' rights - these will remain the same. I would also envisage (just speculating) that people will work for longer - by choice.

It's tough to answer of the NHS and I guess it will be a discussion for the future (if Labour succeed).

Have a look at these regarding productivity:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/t...t-became-permanent-at-this-company-2018-10-06

https://theconversation.com/economi...rch-shows-it-can-save-businesses-money-126701
 
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balkan tiger said:
Always up for a challenge, i'll give it a go.

A number of issues and story's here. The first one, 4 year old child is ill and ends up at A+E with mother. As always these days it's busy. What parent in their right mind would let their sick child lay on the floor? if there was nothing better sit the kid on your lap whilst you sit on a chair.
OK so your getting pissed off waiting but do you really need to send pictures to the media right now? Did you think that would speed thing up it getting care for your child.
The hospital issued an official apology so it must be true, well I think the standard line put out is only normal, even before any investigation of the incident. Of course we are disappointed, we were extremely busy at that time, it's normally better than this bla bla bla.

Now its gone viral, all over social media. The now famous tweet / post on face book. its seems like every man and his dog has a friend who is a senior nurse at Leeds hospital and they all managed to compose the exact same statement about the incident. So that bit is fake but who started it? The journalist claim to have found the woman who posted first but she claims it was sent to her from a friend or contact? Further investigations find a vague link between her son and a Conservative MP. But both claim they know nothing of the message.

It's sad that the original story has been forgotten and now it's all about social media. I read somewhere describing it as the genie is out of the bottle, it's turned into a monster and now there is no control of it. Anyone can post anything and it spreads like a wild fire.
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I agree - it is the fake news part which has become the main story and the massive concern.

Is it homegrown or is it foreign powers dabbling? Maybe if the Russian Dossier hadn’t been held back we would have a better idea.

Independent analysis has shown that the Tories themselves are consistently lying. There is always spin and EVERY party uses that – but outright lies? Straight out Putin and Trump esque tactics.

If Labour were doing that, I could never support them. Never. I’d vote elsewhere or just spoil the ballot.

It does seem, in this election, that some people just aren’t concerned with ‘truth’, evidence or fairplay.

A genuine watershed in our democracy and a damning truth about our society.
 
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Leon T Trout AFC said:
Eh? He’s always been pro-Labour.

So when did he suddenly come out with this then? Must have been years ago (if at all). Be interested if you could pinpoint me to this time.

And it sort of contradicts your claim to have been a Labour voter up to Blair too. Strange.

Tip for the day: you really should listen to people with different views – you learn stuff directly and indirectly.
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I remember listening to a James O'Brien LBC show and is about all algorithms on social media have helped fuel far right eco chamber's.

So to avoid a left wing eco chamber. I went and followed Breitbart, Trump, Tommy Robinson, Nigel Farage from the right and mainstream journalist like Kuenssberg and Peston.
 
The main bit I can't understand is, people claim the Labour manifesto is fully costed, yet they have no idea the costs of re-nationalising multiple companies and industries.

There is no costing towards the loss of tax from a 32 hour week, because there will be none due to productive increases. There is nowhere near enough research to state this, they are making a huge policy decision based on minimal research. Our company has 60 employees, and we don't have enough evidence to state whether a 4 day week would work, so god knows how the government does.

So to claim the Labour manifesto is fully costed is ludicrous and incorrect.

The other I can't get my head around is how me paying more tax because I earn more is "fair". Surely "fair" would be every individual paying the same percentage, no matter what income level they are? Also you don't need to be earning £80k to get an increase in tax, that is an absolute myth, anyone who takes dividends will see an increase in the tax they pay. Little Old John a one man Ltd company earning 20k could see his tax increase.

The definition of fair - To treat people equally without favoritism or discrimination - not sure how increasing tax for certain people but not others is fair.

I am not a huge fan of any parties, as none of them represent my views. I class myself as slightly right of centre and that is certainly not represented by the Tories, or the Liberals and definitely not Labour. Which is very tricky, but I will make sure I vote.

I am not trying to persuade people how to vote, we all have opinions, but I have some huge inconsistencies in the Labour manifesto and campaign that really worries me.
 
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Mr Hacker said:
The people who know best telling you not to vote for labour

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-12-11...lls-advert-to-urge-voters-not-to-back-corbyn/

I would agree with them but they advocate voting for other parties, so they’re still morons.
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It’s an embarrassment that they were ever part of the Labour Party – and most jumped before pushed and no wonder Labour lost chunks of the confidence of working people.

This is a tweet from Ian Austin:



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Also, for balance.

John Major, Michael Heseltine and Kenneth Clarke have either urged voters to not vote Tory, or vote for someone else.

Plus, the endorsements for The Labour Party are wide ranging across cultural and social life, as mentioned earlier in thread:

Don't forget Stephen Hawking backed Corbyn 2017

Plus now a range from Naomi Klein to Norm Chomsky. From Steve Coogan to Rob Delaney.

From Brian Eno to Roger Waters.

Brian Eno - what the **** does he know?

Lots it seems.
 
Leon T Trout AFC said:
It’s an embarrassment that they were ever part of the Labour Party – and most jumped before pushed and no wonder Labour lost chunks of the confidence of working people.

This is a tweet from Ian Austin:



You must log in or register to see images
Click to expand...

Is that real ^^^^^^^

WOW!
 
TheCasual said:
I remember listening to a James O'Brien LBC show and is about all algorithms on social media have helped fuel far right eco chamber's.

So to avoid a left wing eco chamber. I went and followed Breitbart, Trump, Tommy Robinson, Nigel Farage from the right and mainstream journalist like Kuenssberg and Peston.
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It's a good thing to do.

I struggle to click on the likes of The Sun's links usually, but it is important to know the full picture.
 
Leon T Trout AFC said:
Also, for balance.

John Major, Michael Heseltine and Kenneth Clarke have either urged voters to not vote Tory, or vote for someone else.

Plus, the endorsements for The Labour Party are wide ranging across cultural and social life, as mentioned earlier in thread:

Don't forget Stephen Hawking backed Corbyn 2017

Plus now a range from Naomi Klein to Norm Chomsky. From Steve Coogan to Rob Delaney.

From Brian Eno to Roger Waters.

Brian Eno - what the **** does he know?

Lots it seems.
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But are the motives different? As in John Major et al are pro remain? Without me checking.
 
Idi Amin said:
But are the motives different? As in John Major et al are pro remain? Without me checking.
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They are all pro-Remain.

But attack Johnson on many issues.

For instance, ex PM John Major said of Johnson/Gove et al. "The NHS is about as safe with them as a pet hamster would be with a hungry python."
 
Leon T Trout AFC said:
I agree - it is the fake news part which has become the main story and the massive concern.

Is it homegrown or is it foreign powers dabbling? Maybe if the Russian Dossier hadn’t been held back we would have a better idea.

Independent analysis has shown that the Tories themselves are consistently lying. There is always spin and EVERY party uses that – but outright lies? Straight out Putin and Trump esque tactics.

If Labour were doing that, I could never support them. Never. I’d vote elsewhere or just spoil the ballot.

It does seem, in this election, that some people just aren’t concerned with ‘truth’, evidence or fairplay.

A genuine watershed in our democracy and a damning truth about our society.
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Of course Labour tell lies. They all tell countless lies.
 
Leon T Trout AFC said:
Also, for balance.

John Major, Michael Heseltine and Kenneth Clarke have either urged voters to not vote Tory, or vote for someone else.

Plus, the endorsements for The Labour Party are wide ranging across cultural and social life, as mentioned earlier in thread:

Don't forget Stephen Hawking backed Corbyn 2017

Plus now a range from Naomi Klein to Norm Chomsky. From Steve Coogan to Rob Delaney.

From Brian Eno to Roger Waters.

Brian Eno - what the **** does he know?

Lots it seems.
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I don't see how Steve Coogan (for instance) supporting Labour has any relevance to anything.
 
Brabs said:
I don't see how Steve Coogan (for instance) supporting Labour has any relevance to anything.
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That can be true, depending upon your viewpoint I suppose.

I love Coogan's work. He's been massively influential and continues to be so.
 
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